# Related to First job Thread - todays teens **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 5, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444 "2014-04-05T23:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/41 "2014-04-08T18:57:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Funny, everyone wants us to act like adults but they’re only willing to pay us like children and provide no healthcare. 1. I don’t see where anyone is saying that kids need to act like adults; 2. One gets paid for the job they do and the experience/value they bring. Younger people have less experience and, therefore tend to hold lower paying jobs. I started out at less than the minimum wage, worked hard and proved the value I added. Only then did more money come to me. That is certainly not always the case, there are self made teenage millionares out there. They found where they could add value and exploited it. You are free to choose either route; 3. “Kids” can stay on their parent’s healthcare until age 26. Two of my kids have paying jobs with the opportunity for healthcare. I told them to stay on mine until they have to get their own. It’s no more expensive for me either way, so why should they pay for their own? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/42 "2014-04-08T19:20:22Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > A lot of teens aren’t working because adults are working the jobs teens typically do. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > 'Round these parts, it’s because all the jobs have been taken by Mexicans. These both smack of “Thanks, Obama,” and I’m not convinced. I still see a LOT of teens working, generally in places that are still recruiting like mad. Then again, I live in Omaha, and our unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country, so my anecdotage is skewed. > [@monstro](#): > > My niece just turned 16. Instead of filling out applications for McDonald’s and Six Flags like her mother and me did when we were 16, she’s looking for cool science summer camps. And to my surprise, her mother is letting her. > > None of my niece’s friends will spend their summers working. All of them are going to be on various college campus scattered across the country attending “smart kid” summer camps. This is all they can talk about, so naturally my niece wants in on it too. And it’s really hard for her mother (my sis) to turn her down, even though these programs are expensive. > > Because she wants Maia to go to a good college and get scholarship money. Which means she’s got to be academically competitive. A summer at Six Flags builds character and provides valuable experiences, but it’s not something that builds academic skills. I’m a bit sad that my niece isn’t getting the “independent” adolescence that I enjoyed, but I recognize times are different. I think this has more to do with it, especially among middle-class kids. Time was that the typical attorney/executive/doctor made their kid get a job - ostensibly to make some of their own money, but really to teach responsibility and keep the kids busy. Increasingly, these families are stressing extracurriculars (options for which increase every year) and foreign travel. That’s the way it seems to me, anyway. Now watch somebody come around with some statistics to blow my gossamer case out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/43 "2014-04-08T19:24:32Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > 1. I don’t see where anyone is saying that kids need to act like adults; > 2. One gets paid for the job they do and the experience/value they bring. Younger people have less experience and, therefore tend to hold lower paying jobs. I started out at less than the minimum wage, worked hard and proved the value I added. Only then did more money come to me. That is certainly not always the case, there are self made teenage millionares out there. They found where they could add value and exploited it. You are free to choose either route; > 3. “Kids” can stay on their parent’s healthcare until age 26. Two of my kids have paying jobs with the opportunity for healthcare. I told them to stay on mine until they have to get their own. It’s no more expensive for me either way, so why should they pay for their own? Minimum wage for minors is lower than for adults. It’s not just that teenagers are only likely to get low-paid jobs - they do actually get paid less for doing the exact same job. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/44 "2014-04-09T00:01:44Z")
More data: > **[10 Years of Advanced Placement Exam Data Show Significant Gains in Access and...](https://newsroom.collegeboard.org/10-years-advanced-placement-exam-data-show-significant-gains-access-and-success-areas-improvement)** Both availability of and participation in Advanced Placement classes has increased over the past decade. These classes are a major time commitment (a greater one than I think appropriate, although that is a separate discussion.) Furthermore, “my school doesn’t offer that” is no longer an excuse. Online AP classes were available in the late 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/45 "2014-04-09T13:40:54Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Minimum wage for minors is lower than for adults. It’s not just that teenagers are only likely to get low-paid jobs - they do actually get paid less for doing the exact same job. Right, that is my point #2. In general, minors have less job experience of any kind and, therefore, bring less value and more cost - training, mistakes, etc - to the employer. Hence the lower starting pay. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/46 "2014-04-09T15:28:08Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Funny, everyone wants us to act like adults but they’re only willing to pay us like children and provide no healthcare. :rolleyes: Welcome to the real world. I came in here to say that my observation is that many teens (and recent college grads!) feel that so many jobs are beneath them. They’ve been fed a line of false information that if you go to college you’ll get a good job. Sorry folks you still have to start out as a humble beginner and work your way up to a position of responsibility, more money, etc. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/47 "2014-04-09T15:37:23Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Right, that is my point #2. In general, minors have less job experience of any kind and, therefore, bring less value and more cost - training, mistakes, etc - to the employer. Hence the lower starting pay. Well, not really. Otherwise an adult with no work experience could also get lower than minimum wage. It’s just politics. Under-18s don’t vote. And under-18s working sub-minimum-wage jobs tend not to come from rich families. I get your point in a way, but can you not empathise with the POV of a teenager being paid less to do the same work as someone a couple of years older? Even if they’ve held the job for months, they’ll get less than a new starter. That has to sting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/48 "2014-04-09T15:43:57Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > :rolleyes: Welcome to the real world. > > I came in here to say that my observation is that many teens (and recent college grads!) feel that so many jobs are beneath them. They’ve been fed a line of false information that if you go to college you’ll get a good job. Sorry folks you still have to start out as a humble beginner and work your way up to a position of responsibility, more money, etc. **Stringbean** didn’t specify, but I’m skeptical this has anything to do with the kind of jobs we’re talking about. You don’t graduate college and then work your way up from a job flipping burgers. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/49 "2014-04-09T16:31:38Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > :rolleyes: Welcome to the real world. > > I came in here to say that my observation is that many teens (and recent college grads!) feel that so many jobs are beneath them. They’ve been fed a line of false information that if you go to college you’ll get a good job. Sorry folks you still have to start out as a humble beginner and work your way up to a position of responsibility, more money, etc. Really? My parents and their parents got paid full-time jobs as ‘humble beginners’ - my mum was a trainee journalist who could afford a _mortgage_ in her twenties. Me and many of my friends have had to take on internships (often unpaid, and if they’re paid they’re very short-term) before we can get any money at all. That’s about recent graduates. As for teens, formal examination in school has drastically increased in my country. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/50 "2014-04-10T14:50:14Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Well, not really. Otherwise an adult with no work experience could also get lower than minimum wage. It’s just politics. The minimum wage is politics, yes. It’s an arbitrary amount that has nothing to do with the value of a job. Without the arbitrary minimums (no, I’m not arguing against minimum wage), one would likely see the same job/experience combo pay the same rate regardless of age. > [@](#): > > I get your point in a way, but can you not empathise with the POV of a teenager being paid less to do the same work as someone a couple of years older? Even if they’ve held the job for months, they’ll get less than a new starter. That has to sting. Sure I can. I posted my experience starting out at my first job making less than minumum wage. In the vast majority of cases, people who work hard and add value do not make minumum wage long. Get in, work hard, advance. I get it, I really do. The economy, especially for good paying jobs, has stunk in recent years. College grads are flipping burgers. The really smart ones, though, are flipping burgers well, adding value, learning about business and moving up where they are. Short term pain for long term gain. 7 years ago my VP level position was eliminated in a corporate downsizing. When I finally found another job it was as a first line manager and paid about 20% less than my previous job. That step back in income hurt. I took the job, worked hard and have advanced to the point where I am equal to or ahead of where I would have been had my job not been eliminated. Whether starting out or starting over, one rarely starts at the top. Or miiddle. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/51 "2014-04-10T16:10:01Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > My WAG is that a lot of them don’t know how to be useful in some jobs (they weren’t taught at home). > > I had a recent conversation with the owner of that company, and he told me that he rarely hires kids for the summers anymore. He says very few of them have any knowledge of tools nor the basics he needs. He said no one is teaching their kids how to do this stuff and (his words) all they seem capable of is playing with their phones. He said he simply doesn’t have time to teach them, and is better off without. Yeah, an increasing number of kids aren’t learning those sorts of skills at home, because an increasing number of parents never learned those skills either. (Of course, my dad knows how to do all that stuff and never taught me most of it because he didn’t want me messing up any of his stuff in the learning process.) You’d be amazed at the number of people I’ve worked with over the years who can’t do basic stuff like replace a button or run a lawn mower, much less hitch and back a trailer. And we just won’t get started on the handful of 20 year olds I’ve seen come through that I had to teach how to wash dishes, or do laundry, or sweep a freaking floor. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/52 "2014-04-11T04:42:26Z")
Because adults are taking those jobs. I’ve applied around town now that university’s almost over. Mostly the typical jobs, some city maintenance, a few greenhouses, fast food, customer service, etc. I’ve had 3 interviews, and in every case I’ve seen people who are in their 30’s and 40’s applying. Actually 2 interviewers have asked me why they should hire me over them. Never even mind jobs in my field of study. Outside of university jobs and lab assistants, which are limited and typically offered to low-income students, what few positions do open up are immediately snapped up by laid-off adults. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/53 "2014-04-11T06:19:46Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Because adults are taking those jobs. I’ve applied around town now that university’s almost over. Mostly the typical jobs, some city maintenance, a few greenhouses, fast food, customer service, etc. I’ve had 3 interviews, and in every case I’ve seen people who are in their 30’s and 40’s applying. Actually 2 interviewers have asked me why they should hire me over them. And they’re asking the forty year old ‘Why should I hire you, as opposed to the college student?’ Both valid and common questions. > [@](#): > > Never even mind jobs in my field of study. Outside of university jobs and lab assistants, which are limited and typically offered to low-income students, what few positions do open up are immediately snapped up by laid-off adults. Is this a temporary, situational problem, or should you rethink your field of study? In the last week or so, I’ve had a mason, electrician, and plumber let me know they’re hiring. Mason is willing to hire my fifteen year old for $15 an hour for grunt work. There are plenty of jobs out there where I am, and the Industry I’m in, even entry level. Anecdote, not data. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/54 "2014-04-11T12:33:21Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > And they’re asking the forty year old ‘Why should I hire you, as opposed to the college student?’ Both valid and common questions. > > Is this a temporary, situational problem, or should you rethink your field of study? > > In the last week or so, I’ve had a mason, electrician, and plumber let me know they’re hiring. Mason is willing to hire my fifteen year old for $15 an hour for grunt work. > > There are plenty of jobs out there where I am, and the Industry I’m in, even entry level. Anecdote, not data. Why would they ask that question of an older person who probably already has a degree and more experience? Come on, everyone in this thread. Unemployment is high right now, as we all know. Unskilled jobs are more automated than during the last big downturn and evermore unskilled jobs are going abroad. So is it really likely that unemployment amongst young people, and teenagers not seeking work in high school, is purely down to them being lazy? There are fewer unskilled jobs to go round and there’s more competition for them. It’d be weird if young people found it easy to get work right now. It’s also a bit late to tell someone to rethink their field of study when they’ve already finished it. 15 dollars an hour for a fifteen-year-old is amazing. Did your son take the work? ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/55 "2014-04-11T15:28:08Z")
Congratulations, fisha, you live in one of very few areas where the job market seems to have rebounded, where people are actually hiring and not receiving dozens of applications for every single job that opens up. Your anecdote is very much at odds with the rest of the US, and at least the part of Canada where I reside. As for my field of study, internships and co-ops will be available next year and greatly improve the odds of finding an entry-level job, and more permanent positions will open as the baby boomers begin to retire. And if not, the jobs are in demand elsewhere. I can move to them when I’m done university. TL;DR, what SciFiSam said. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444/56 "2014-04-11T15:34:56Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > A lot of teens aren’t working because adults are working the jobs teens typically do. This, and nowadays, child labor laws are much more strictly enforced than they were when I was a teenager ca. 1980. I do see teens at work all the time, mostly at grocery stores and restaurants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/related-to-first-job-thread-todays-teens/685444.md?page=2)