# Relationship advice please-- stay or go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702 "2012-06-20T00:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/21 "2012-06-20T04:33:47Z")
“Irreconcilable differences” is a common reason given for divorce. If you can’t both get on the same page, it would seem those differences would be irreconcilable. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/22 "2012-06-20T04:34:12Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Off the top of my head - because without that piece of paper, in 40 years’ time after the guy drops dead on her and she’s left alone, she can’t draw on his Social Security benefits, for one - never mind that she spent the past 40 years acting as his wife. If he dies intestate his belongings will go to his kids - or, if they’re no longer living, his next closest relative - as in, NOT her. lleye And we are one fortieth of the way there so far. Sounds to me (according to you) that she’s mostly in this for the money. What it really boils down to is the guy doesnt want the piece of paper because if shit goes south he doesn’t want her to have him by the legal balls so to speak. And she wants that piece of paper because if the shit goes south she wants to have him by the legal balls so to speak. Given modern DNA testing and the modern legal system the woman’s big worry is mostly a thing of past (getting knocked up without that piece of paper and being SOL). And to think some people call me a romantic 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/23 "2012-06-20T04:54:56Z")
First of all, don’t push it with him. The best that could happen is that he will leave you, the worst, he will marry you but not truly be into it. The good news is that he is probably committed and loves you. The bad news is that he has been turned off by the institution of marriage. If the document is more important to you than being with him, them you should leave. If you love him and want to be with him, then stay. His commitment to you isn’t gonna hinge on marriage vows. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/24 "2012-06-20T05:03:49Z")
I totally understand why he feels bullied. I’ve felt the same way. If you force me into this, the first time anything goes wrong at all I’m out. I didn’t want this, this wasn’t my idea, I told you this was a bad idea, see ya. Additionally, it sets a precedent that nagging works. Once you teach a woman that nagging works you will be harassed every minute of every day until your sweet merciful death. I don’t mean to offend, just offering some insight on why you’re not likely to (and shouldn’t want to) strong-arm him into this. It’s a crappy situation to be in, I’m sure, and I feel for you. In my case she backed off and we got married a few years later on my terms. We are happy and have beautiful babies crawling and toddling and running around the house. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/25 "2012-06-20T05:48:34Z")
Over two years dating? A year living together? A half dozen excuses? I think it’s _ **very** _ unlikely this fellow will ever marry you. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/26 "2012-06-20T05:49:45Z")
A mismatch in life goals (kids, religion, marriage) is a totally legitimate reason to end an otherwise perfect relationship. If you are OK staying with this guy forever and never getting married (keeping in mind that you can _never_ change somebody else), then you should stay. If you cannot be happy unless you and he get married, then you should go. Think about it: he would be willing to get married again if the perfect woman came along and requested it. He would do ANYTHING in his power to make his perfect woman perfectly happy. If this guy wanted badly enough to keep you, he would do whatever it took to make you happy. That he isn’t willing to do what it takes to keep you means he doesn’t want to keep you more than he wants to keep his distance. It doesn’t make him a bad person, but it means you two are fundamentally mismatched. It has also been my experience that when asking for advice whether to stay or go, the answer very often is, “go.” You should trust your instincts. But, get some couples counseling before you break it off, I think that’d be a good idea for BOTH of you. I can also say (and this is more in the realm of future advice, but still) when someone warns you about something, you owe it to yourself and him and your relationship to _listen_. In this case, he has told you he doesn’t want to get married. He may never want to get married again. It’s not easy to end a relationship, but it’s not so insurmountably hard to find someone who is compatible with you, loves you, and who WILL want to marry you. So go find that guy (after taking an appropriate amount of time to heal from this relationship first, of course). Don’t be surprised or angry or resentful if, after you end this relationship, this guy gets married to someone else at some point. Unfortunate timing has killed an uncountably enormous number of relationships. You didn’t do anything wrong, he didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just a fundamental disagreement over values, neither of which is right or wrong. And just because he doesn’t want to marry you within a timeframe that makes you happy doesn’t mean that he’s deadset against marriage forever. He’s just deadset against it with you, right now. You could keep marking time in hopes that he changes his mind, but the bitterness will well up inside you and drive the relationship into the ground eventually anyway. I’m sorry ☹ ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/27 "2012-06-20T05:52:32Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > This is most certainly a “why buy the cow” scenario. If you’d been together oh, 6 months or so, yes, you’d be rushing it, but 2.5 years isn’t “rushing it” in any normal person’s book, particularly considering your age. (If you were teenagers yes, maybe 2.5 years would still be rushing it, but you’re both grownass adults.) > > He’s told you repeatedly he doesn’t want to get married. You do. He says he loves you and is committed to you and you’ve made it clear that, for whatever reasons, you DO need that “piece of paper.” There’s not a damn thing in the world wrong with that, either. > > Any man with a brain that has a woman who is good to him and – more importantly – loves his KID and is loved BY the kid – would go “ok, I don’t need the actual title of marriage, but she does, and I want to be with her forever anyway, so time to go ring shopping.” > > People who don’t want to get married usually don’t want to marry because they want an easy way out of the relationship goes south. You can’t be all “oooh I’m fully committed” and not willing to back it up if the other party considers making it legal the only way _to_ back it up. > > You can do one of three things – cut your losses and move on or accept it and keep living with a guy that doesn’t want to marry you and hope/pray that he’ll eventually change his mind. > > Or you can sit him down and have a come to Jesus talk. It might work and you might find yourself married in short order. That said, you needta ask yourself – do you really wanna marry a guy that had to be given an ultimatum to snap you up? > Or … alternately, what Sparky said. Vote # 14. Yes, I completely agree, he’s where he wants to be. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/28 "2012-06-20T05:57:53Z")
Also, if marriage really \*was \*just a piece of paper to him, then it wouldn’t be a big deal at all to do it. But it IS a big deal to him, making it far more than a simple piece of paper. But he won’t admit that to you (and maybe even not to himself). It’s a cheesy, lame-ass line, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/29 "2012-06-20T06:17:54Z")
I think people are being a little hard on the guy. He hasn’t been divorced for very long, it sounds like. And yeah, it might be bad timing on both parts…he’s not ready yet, she’s ready NOW and won’t be later…but it still comes down to this: If she wants ANY marriage, and not just THIS marriage, then a proposal, with an acceptable, to her, time for him to get used to the idea, is a good idea. After that, they can both go their own ways knowing they at least tried. And remember, this is coming from someone who basically said ‘No’ the first time Mr.Tao asked; smart man that he is, he backed off…and I asked him in return 6 months later. I couldn’t tell you what changed, except that I just had more time to get used to the idea and to come to it on my own terms. No other approach would have worked, apparantly, as I’ve approached the altar half a dozen times in my life only to back out, so…yeah. Sometimes the slow and quiet sneaky approach is the best one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/30 "2012-06-20T06:20:29Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > AIt has also been my experience that when asking for advice whether to stay or go, the answer very often is, “go.” ( Ahh. The classic DTMFA advice finally surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/31 "2012-06-20T06:32:47Z")
So this guy won’t even give you something he considers just a piece of paper? He’s got everything he wants. All you want is a piece of paper. A party and a dress. Well, marriage is not just a piece of paper. It is a commitment that says we are a family. That is what he is refusing. Show him this. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/32 "2012-06-20T06:42:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Ahh. The classic DTMFA advice finally surfaces. Of course. Because nobody should ever be told to leave a relationship that isn’t working for them. :rolleyes: Yes we do have some DMTFA going on a lot on the boards but this clearly isn’t one of those situations. ---
**Author:** ![indiaeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@indiaeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/indiaeyes)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/33 "2012-06-20T07:02:48Z")
I get this almost on a daily basis. First, have you spoken personally with the ex-wife about their relationship? Second, why move in with a man? Gee, seems like he is getting a free ride. You do laundry, cook, clean, drive, babysit and pay rent. Wow! You are saving him a fortune! Do not make the mistake of getting pregnant I fear it will be a big mistake, for you! I advise you as well as my clients do not live together. If he is not willing to make a commitment now I honestly doubt he ever will. Cut your losses! Find someone who loves you, really loves you! You deserve better!He calls you his sister to his son but sleeps with you? That in itself should show you he is not committed! > [@SweetiePotato](#): > > Ok here goes… I don’t have a lot of people to talk to about this, so I was hoping for some (friendly?) advice… > > I’ve been living with my b/f and his 7-yo son (50% custody, from a previous marriage) for almost a year now, but we’ve been dating for ~2.5 years. We met when he was separated, and he’s been officially divorced for a year and a half. I have a great relationship with his son, who I’ve known for over a year, and a great relationship with my b/f. He tells me he loves me, calls me his partner, says he’s fully committed to me, that he never thought he would find someone like me. He encourages a close relationship between me and his son, who calls me his “big sister”. For my part, I’m totally in love with him and, while it’s been a rocky road to emotional commitment to someone with ex-wife-and-child baggage, I am finally beginning to feel like part of the family. There are rough patches, but day-to-day we’re all very happy. > > The trouble, of course, is that b/f isn’t ready to get married again, but after living with someone and their son for a year, I’m ready to solidify a real commitment. When I moved in with him, I told him very clearly that I see moving in together as a big step towards marriage, and he told me that he could see himself getting married again someday. Ok, I thought, let’s give it some time. > > In December, he told me he was really happy and ready to celebrate our commitment together, and we should get tattoos or matching jewelry or something and have a little ceremony with friends/family… BUT that he wasn’t ready to think about marriage. I told him that this sounded like he wanted all the important aspects of marriage without actually getting married. He said he wanted to celebrate commitment on our own terms. I told him that we can do the marriage thing on our own terms, but that I don’t want an “un-marriage”. > > A couple months ago, he said he was thinking more about long-term commitment and we had a discussion about possibly having a child together, something he’s been wishy-washy on for a long time. I took him initiating the discussion, though, as a good sign. > > That’s how everything was left, until now… I’m about to turn 30 and I want some legitimacy. I don’t want to be a live-in girlfriend forever! I’m fully integrated into his son’s life, I attend his school events, I cook and clean and do laundry, I help coordinate with his ex-wife on scheduling, we have several summer trips planned, I’ve met all his family, he’s met all of my family, etc etc etc. > > I brought it up the other night. I said, I’m having some stress around turning 30 and in a situation where I’m taking care of a house that I have no ownership in, caring for a child that isn’t mine, and sharing finances with someone who isn’t my husband. I said I want to be sensitive to him about not being ready for marriage but I feel like I need some real commitment. > > He told me that: 1) inviting me to live with his son is the biggest commitment he can make, 2) that marriage is just a piece of paper, 3) that he wants to enjoy a relationship that he doesn’t have to call anything, 4) that he doesn’t want to be bullied into proposing to me, 5) that he’s becoming more ready for it, and 6) when it’s the right time, “it’ll just happen”. All of those responses are troubling to me. > > I do know that he was with his ex-wife for 5 years before he proposed to her, and they had an amicable split because of several incompatibility issues. I don’t want to rush anyone, and I’m certainly not bullying anyone. I thought that was an obnoxious thing to say. No one wants to marry someone they have to pressure into it! > > It’s just hard for me to understand how you can be truly in love with someone and truly committed to them and STILL not want to get married. Our lifestyle is such that not very much would change, and I don’t expect it to. I’m willing to sign a pre-nup protecting assets for his son and I’ve never wanted an expensive wedding. It’s unclear to me what his hang-ups are, unless he’s just not fully committed to me. > > I have no other reason to doubt his commitment, but this one is a biggie. I feel rejected, unappreciated, and depressed and I’m not sure if this means I need to cut my losses and scoot. After all, he’s the one with the complicated baggage, not me. > > I wouldn’t have a problem with waiting a bit more if I knew he’d be ready in a decent time-frame, but he hasn’t given me a time-frame so I’m not sure what to do… is this a “why buy the cow” scenario, or am I rushing it? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/34 "2012-06-20T07:21:43Z")
One more data point. When I was 20, I was with a man whom I loved dearly, and he me, he showed that in everything that he did. However, he told me from the start that he didn’t want to marry me and that he didn’t want to have children. I was okay with that. After 18 good years together, I left him for other reasons (I was depressed at the time). Now he is a very good loyal friend to me and mine, as he has been for the last 25 years. I’m married and have a kid with my new husband. My ex is in a loving relationship, and still not married. Like many men who don’t want to marry, he has skipped the “I’m over thirty and want a kid and be married NOW” age group and moved straight on to the " I had kids young so now in my late forties/early fifties I am a carefree young single grandmother who doesn’t need to marry either" age group. In other words, my ex also said he loved me and didn’t want to marry me. He was truthful on both counts, and he never changed his mind on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/35 "2012-06-20T07:27:39Z")
> [@SweetiePotato](#): > > He told me that: 1) inviting me to live with his son is the biggest commitment he can make, 2) that marriage is just a piece of paper, 3) that he wants to enjoy a relationship that he doesn’t have to call anything, 4) that he doesn’t want to be bullied into proposing to me, 5) that he’s becoming more ready for it, and 6) when it’s the right time, “it’ll just happen”. All of those responses are troubling to me. Have you considered proposing to him? Would being “engaged with the date not set” make you feel better? Would a proposal from you send him running for the hills? He’s got a sore spot, ok. But you do have one too and it’s hurting! And if he thinks that inviting you to live with his already-alive son is a bigger commitment than making another child with you, he needs a rethink. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/36 "2012-06-20T07:41:36Z")
Jesus the guy went through a divorce a little under two years ago, of course he’s not ready for “ya sign me up for more of that.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/37 "2012-06-20T08:00:38Z")
But he’s ready to have a kid. Rite. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/38 "2012-06-20T11:46:27Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Jesus the guy went through a divorce a little under two years ago, of course he’s not ready for “ya sign me up for more of that.” Then he shouldn’t be asking someone to live with him in a marriage-like arrangement with all the logistical if not legal entanglements of marriage. If one of them was to walk out the door right now, they’d still have to sort out which household goods belong to who, settle on a way to divvy up the money in the joint account, sort out what to do about childcare, etc. And he most certainly shouldn’t be discussing having a ceremony with family and friends and matching jewelry to celebrate their commitment. And don’t even get me started on this talking about having a baby together business. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/39 "2012-06-20T12:30:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And we are one fortieth of the way there so far. Sounds to me (according to you) that she’s mostly in this for the money. > > What it really boils down to is the guy doesnt want the piece of paper because if shit goes south he doesn’t want her to have him by the legal balls so to speak. > > And she wants that piece of paper because if the shit goes south she wants to have him by the legal balls so to speak. > > Given modern DNA testing and the modern legal system the woman’s big worry is mostly a thing of past (getting knocked up without that piece of paper and being SOL). > > And to think some people call me a romantic 🙂 Or maybe she wants to sit by his hospital bed when he dies. Make the next of kin decisions if he is incapacitated. Create a legal relationship with his son. Or maybe she just wants to be able to explain the relationship in accurate and easy terms - husband/wife. Maybe she needs to make grandma happy in knowing she isn’t a shameless hussy before she dies. Whatever her rationale for wanting the piece of paper, it is no less important to her than his reasons for not wanting the piece of paper. She can’t force him to marry, and he can’t force her to stick around without marriage, and thus the impasse. My husband proposed about two years after my divorce, and my response was “why” - I wasn’t in a big rush for kids then, and really didn’t see any reason to get married - but it was important to him for whatever reason. And I wanted to make him happy and I wanted to be with him forever, which meant there wasn’t any real reason NOT to get married. Turned out to be a good decision because when we went to have kids we ended up in the adoption process, and that marriage license was critical. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702/40 "2012-06-20T12:58:39Z")
I was divorced 6 years before I even considered marriage again. Youre ready, he isnt. It is just that simple. JMHO, but you cannot supersede your perception of time needed to recommit to marriage over his. Someone tried to do that to me. We broke up pretty quickly. She became more pressing in our relationship, I almost felt like it was a demand. Needless to say, I didnt marry her. If your need to marry outweighs his time to be ready, you have to make a decision. Either wait for him, or move on. I can tell you from personal experience, all the discussions, pressure, hints etc only work against you. It wont speed up his clock, in fact (at least it did with me), it will push the clock farther. He will feel pressured into doing something that he isnt ready for. In the long run, that will hurt you both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relationship-advice-please-stay-or-go/625702.md?page=3)