Relationship advice please-- stay or go?

In My Humble Opinion
41

He is where he wants to be, nice and comfortable. There is absolutlely nothing wrong with that. You are not where you want to be. As I read it, you want marriage and a child. If the man you love isn’t willing to give up some of his comfort to make you more comfortable or to help you achive some of your goals in life then he isn’t the right guy. Maybe you won’t find the right guy elsewhere but THIS guy isn’t the right one either. Only you know if you can live with that.

As for marriage, gay folks are fighting hard for the right to marry for some very good reasons. Marriage gives one a lot of rights in another person’s life, rights that I would find hard to live without in the person I plan to spend my life with. It’s not just a piece of paper, it is the document that allows you pick up your stepson at school, to visit you husband in the hospital or to share government and business benefits with your family.

Like Nava, I think you should propose. That is how men find out if a woman wants to marry them, why not the other way around?

42

All along, he’s told you exactly how he feels, and you’ve apparently been hoping that he’ll change. He’s still telling you how he feels, and you’re still asking, “when is he going to change?” At this point, I think you either have to accept the relationship you have, or get out.

43

I’m kind of going to agree with Tom, when people show you who they are, your job is to see.

I’m sure he’s a great guy, but that doesn’t change that he’s not meeting an important need for you and not willing to. And that’s not going to change.

Book a vacation, with a friend maybe. Sit him down and thank him for his honesty concerning this, that you’ve both spoken to your position and seemed to have reached an impasse. No one’s fault, it’s been awesome, but clearly you need time to think and feel he could benefit from the same.

Acknowledge that you both know what the other wants, but are both equally unwilling to shift. That is just conflict waiting to happen. Point out that you’ve discovered what you were really hoping for, it seems, is a man who wants to marry you, and apparently that’s not him. Thank him for the great time you’ve had with him and then go away on holiday for a week or two.

Do some thinking. Let him do some thinking. You may find, you’ll convince yourself he’ll come around eventually, while you’re on holiday, only to get home and see the truth right before your eyes, and now impossible to ignore, he’s not going to come around. That may finally bring you to where you need to be.

Is this a deal breaker for you? That would seem to be the root of your problem. If it is, then you need to get out. Period. If it’s not, then you need to reconsider your ‘need’ to be asked, owned, certified, and walked down the aisle.

Hopefully you’ve at least learned enough to not get yourself so invested in a relationship, again, before discussing what seems like a deal breaker to you.

44

Like others have said, he’s where he wants to be and you are not. I’ve been in your situation. I’ve been with my other half for fifteen years and unmarried. I’d actually prefer to be married, but when push came to shove, I decided the piece of paper was not more important to me than him. So I put it aside for some undetermined point of time. However, we have no kids, so that was a big factor.

In NY, the domestic partnership benefits are awesome, so I have less worry about that sort of thing.

One thing I must protest, however. I hate the line “Why buy the cow when the milk’s free?” I usually counter it with “Why buy the pig when you can get the sausage for free?”

Good luck, OP, with whatever you may decide. I don’t really think you should dump him unless you are really unhappy - you could try to make it work a bit longer as is. But in the end only you can make the decision.

45

Opening yourself to the risk of being hurt again, is a choice. Possibly the most important choice we make, in life. It is never easy. For anyone.

Your relationship should not be defined by his experience with his ex wife. You are not her. Any conversation with him should include this, most emphatically.

Every second marriage is a triumph of hope over experience. Tell him to put on his big boy pants and man up, or you’re moving on.

Do not, continue to let things just run on, as they stand, if you carry any resentment or will have any anger if, come the future, he is never ready. Either get right with how it is, and let is go, or pull the plug, but don’t waste everyone’s time. Especially a young child who adores you.

46

I like the don’t waste everyone’s time part, as advice for both you and your partner.

My brother in law dated a woman for three years. He’d been twice married, and not at all interested in getting married again. She wanted marriage and children. She stayed believing he’d change his mind. He let her stay cause he liked her fine and it was easy. He finally broke up with her because she was too demanding.as long as he was comfortable, all was good. She moved on, he moved on, and they both found relationships that gave them what they needed. It drove me nuts, watching the two of them. He felt it was her responsibility to move on if she wasn’t getting what she wanted from him and he was happy (and he had a point). She seemed to feel that as long as he was telling her he loved her, he’d come around, he could not help but eventually give the woman he loved what she wanted and needed, and love would fix her discontent, but that wasn’t going to happen.

47

I think the whole first marriage thing going bad is probably making him confused and gunshy. You said he dated his first wife 5 years before getting married. Maybe in his mind everything was great and going exactly as he liked it for those years and the marriage marked the point where things began to go downhill.
If he doesn’t understand or know why his first marriage went bad then he possibly fears it may happen again.
You need to get him to talk in detail about his past relationship. How he felt those first 5 years, what he felt changed after getting married, where he saw the cracks starting, etc.

48

He’s known for a year that this is what you want, but he’s been stringing you along. IMHO, the “get a joint tattoo” in December was throwing you a bone to keep you quiet about this for a while.

I’m the last person to ask for relationship advice, but I do feel that he really has no interest in getting married again and is just doing and saying what he thinks will keep you where you are.

If I were you, I’d get out before the relationship with the son gets any deeper. It’ll be hard enough on him if you leave, but if you wait for another year or two of step-parenting, it’ll be that much harder on him - like going through his parents divorce again.

StG

49

Note that he didn’t say “When my GF demands it”.

50

Unfortunately, I think the best thing for you to do is tell him that he has another 3 months to “think about it” and that you will be moving on, if he isn’t ready to be married by then.

Rent an apartment (sign a short lease or month-to-month if possible) quietly pack your things, and move out. No fights, no discussions, just pack and be gone.

One of two things will happen. He will immediately come to heel, or he won’t. Either way, you’ll have your answer, and you’ll be in a good place for planning your future.

51

I have a lot of experience in this matter, both with my own relationships and those of my friends. I’m not sure if it’s a NYC thing, but I feel like I’ve met a ton of people who are in 5yr, 10yr or even longer relationships without being married (including myself). And they mostly seem like they are loving, committed relationships.

As for why they don’t take the next step and actually get married, I cannot say. It could be they believe that getting married is the first station on an unstoppable train, making stops at Mortgageport, Cubilcleton, Long Commutewich, East Kidschester and…oh I don’t know…Fairfield (in my mind, this train is on the Metro North Railroad).

52

Don’t take me out of context, you rakish blackguard. You realize there was a whole second half to that statement (“trust your instincts”), and an entire post around it besides?

P.S. Learn to quote.

53

I dont know, ultimatum type of advice seems to me to be a sure way to end the relationship. That may be what the OP wants, but JMHO, if anyone thinks this will work to get a commitment from him, they are mistaken.

And if I am wrong, and he does commit, I see a divorce down the road. Both parties have to “want” to be married. Ultimatums, deadline dates arent going to make a good marriage

54

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for so many thoughtful replies!

I just have a couple things to say in response:

I am absolutely NOT in it for the money. I have just always associated commitment with marriage, and when I imagine being with someone long-term, I imagine marrying them. It’s hard for me to emotionally separate marriage from my conception of long-term happiness.

Likewise, though, when you spend the last few years of your marriage becoming fat and depressed, I imagine that it’s also hard to separate the idea of unhappiness with marriage.

When we first got together, he would make disparaging remarks about marriage all the time. I got frustrated and called him on it, and I have seen a marked shift in how he talks about it. He always speaks about the future with me in very happy, positive terms.

I hate ultimatums, and I know that he wouldn’t respond well to an ultimatum. It’s possible that, because he just founded a start-up in the past couple months, that this is something that is shelved in his mind while he focuses on work.

I think it’s probably wise to set myself a mental timeline. I can give him another 6 months, less if I begin to feel the resentment build.

I’m really thankful for everyone’s two cents, it really helps me put things in perspective…

55

This isnt an ultimatum, it is doing what you need to do for yourself. Imagine if you were in a relationship with a woman who stopped having sex with you. She loved you, enjoyed cuddling with you…but when it comes down to anything overtly sexual, she just doesnt want it. Maybe, she tells you, someday, she’ll want sex again, but for right now, it isn’t something she wants. Moreover, the someday you interpreted when this started as “maybe a few months” but now…months later, someday seems like some point in the vague future, and may mean never.

Now you have a choice, do you stick with her on the promise of someday, or do you say “you know, I signed up for a relationship that involved sex, and this one isn’t heading that direction anytime soon?”

Sweetie signed on for a relationship heading for marriage, or so she thought with the “someday” statement. And it’s becoming obvious to her that “someday” was a vague maybe that isnt happening…it may someday, but someday and may are not good enough for her now, just like most people wouldnt hang around for their partner to get back in the mood someday.

It’s an ultimatum only in that if sweetie’s sweetie were to respond with “I can’t let this wonderful person walk out of my life due to my own hangups” and propose, sweetie wouldnt leave.

There are three pieces of advice possible…suck it up…leave, regardless of his response…or leave and consider his response. If the third is an ultimatium, it’s also really the only sensible advice for someone who doesn’t like the status quo, but does like the other person in the relationship.

56

Another way to see what’s up is telling him that if he doesn’t want to get the marriage piece of paper, if he would be willing to still draft up some legal documents over some of the stuff you’d get from marriage. It would help you figure out if he doesn’t want to get married because of the financial commitment, or if he doesn’t want to get married because of the emotional commitment.

57

I came in to say basically what kushiel said.

And also: in general, I didn’t get a really good sense from your OP what you and your boyfriend want and expect out of marriage. Is it the financial aspects (e.g., being able to share insurance)? Is it the legal protections? Is it the emotional aspects? Is it the commitment aspect? (Your later post seems to imply this is the case.) Is it that you want to have children and want to be married before that happens?

For example, since my husband and I were in good health and both had (at the time) very good full-time jobs with awesome health insurance, we didn’t see the point in getting legally married and would have preferred not to have done that at that time (although we bowed to pressure and did it anyway). However, the commitment/religious aspect of it, saying the promises to each other – that was very important to us.

If you have a “commitment” ceremony, how exactly is that different from a marriage? Is it that it is not legally binding? Is the legal recognition important to you? If so, why? I encourage both you and your boyfriend to think hard about why this should or should not be important. Myself, I don’t find the legal recognition at all relevant, but I certainly know people who find it extremely important, who say they would not feel married without the sheet of paper saying they are. It’s a personal thing.

Would it be enough if you had a commitment ceremony and drafted legal documents to give you most (if not all) the shared responsibilities of marriage, such as part ownership in the house?

(We were together for 5 years before mr. hunter decided for sure he wanted to get married to me. So 2.5 years doesn’t strike me as a long time. However, mr. hunter is definitely on the far end of the scale in terms of ever making decisions about anything – it’s been way more than 5 years and he’s still working on making a decision about a new car – and there was always, always the expectation that our relationship would include commitment at some point.)

ETA: He shouldn’t feel bullied into proposing to you. I proposed to my husband (we’d already agreed we were going to get married, but it wasn’t official, and I gave him warning that if he didn’t propose then I was going to).

58

Uh, he just gave you six…how many more can one find??>

He doesn’t want what you want. I would start to disengage, myself.

Please tell me you didn’t get the tattoo.

You got the tattoo, right?

59

Depends on the guy and how committed he really is, I guess. It worked a treat on my brother. After they’d been living together for about 3 years, my sil flat-out told him “Look, I’m getting old enough I can’t fart around waiting on you much longer–if you don’t want to marry me and have kids together that’s fine, but I’m gonna have to leave and look for someone who does want that.” Even with him having a LOT more reason to be marriage-shy than the OP’s fellow (first wife destroyed his credit, left him hugely in debt, fucked around on him, and then told people he hit her), he couldn’t imagine his future without her and so he proposed first romantic occasion he could come up with. Their tenth anniversary is in a couple months, they have a beautiful little girl who’ll be 8 in a few weeks, and they’ve been trying for a second child for several years. He’s been happier these past 10 years than I’ve ever known him, even when we were kids.

60

Same here. I’m like, what, two year relationship, not even 30 yet… What’s the hurry? But that may just be my male perspective. Most of my friends seem to have been dating an average of about 3-5 years (with my brother and his girlfriend at 14 years, dated only each other since she was 14 and he was 16) before they got married. And none of these had the baggage of divorce in the background. I’m also a wedding photographer, and, from what I can tell, the average courtship period is also in the 3-5 year range, at least with my clients. I really don’t find anything weird about it at all. However, if expectations between the two individuals differ, that’s a problem.