# Relative to Klingon & Romulan ships, how powerful was Kirk's Enterprise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505 "2010-07-29T21:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/41 "2010-07-30T19:42:37Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > Cite? > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: How large can we make this thing? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/42 "2010-07-30T19:55:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > > > Cite? > > > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: > > How large can we make this thing? Until the post reaches such size as to generate it’s own gravity field. Then it will suck in the internet, and look like a black hole. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/43 "2010-07-30T20:02:41Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > > > > > Cite? > > > > > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > > > > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: > > > > How large can we make this thing? > > Until the post reaches such size as to generate it’s own gravity field. > > Then it will suck in the internet, and look like a black hole. Keptin, we cannot maintain orbit! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/44 "2010-07-30T20:35:27Z")
When the “Enterprise” is hit by a Klingon photon torpedo (or whatver), do chunks of ceiling plaster fall down in the control room? Those guys (in red coveralls) who sit at consoles (and are harassed by Scottie)-what happens to them? Do they communicate with the bridge via speaking tube (when the intercom system shorts out)? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/45 "2010-07-30T20:38:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Those guys (in red coveralls) who sit at consoles (and are harassed by Scottie)-what happens to them? Do they communicate with the bridge via speaking tube (when the intercom system shorts out)? In the novelized version of Star Trek IV, when the USS Saratoga’s power was knocked out (by the whale friendly probe), the crew communicates with each other via sound powered phones. > **[Sound-powered telephone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-powered_telephone)** > > A sound-powered telephone is a communication device that allows users to talk to each other with the use of a handset, similar to a conventional telephone, but without the use of external power. This technology has been used since at least 1944 for both routine and emergency communication on ships to allow communication between key locations on a vessel if power is unavailable. A sound-powered phone circuit can have two or more stations on the same circuit. The circuit is always live, th The m... This was not shown in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/46 "2010-07-30T20:39:07Z")
You know, speaking of black holes, one thing I felt strongly about in the new Star Trek reboot. I guess I should spoiler it, it involves the climax of the movie OK, Nemo’s ship is being pulled into the black hole. Wow, a black hole. Once you’re inside the event horizon you can never escape, and so Nemo will be gone for good. But why can’t you escape the event horizon of a black hole? Because that is where the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light, therefore nothing can ever escape. Except, you know, something that could go faster than the speed of light. Like, you know, a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light. Which Nemo has. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/47 "2010-07-30T20:56:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You know, speaking of black holes, one thing I felt strongly about in the new Star Trek reboot. > > I guess I should spoiler it, it involves the climax of the movie > > OK, Nemo’s ship is being pulled into the black hole. Wow, a black hole. Once you’re inside the event horizon you can never escape, and so Nemo will be gone for good. But why can’t you escape the event horizon of a black hole? Because that is where the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light, therefore nothing can ever escape. Except, you know, something that could go faster than the speed of light. Like, you know, a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light. Which Nemo has. A very good point. However, I believe that in the Star Trek Universe, it is very difficult for a ship to go to warp speed when it is deep in a gravity well. Since a black hole has a very steep gravity well, the attempt would probably fail. I am certain that there are more accurate replies, but this is the best I can do on short notice. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/48 "2010-07-30T21:00:40Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > > > > > > > Cite? > > > > > > > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > > > > > > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: > > > > > > How large can we make this thing? > > > > Until the post reaches such size as to generate it’s own gravity field. > > > > Then it will suck in the internet, and look like a black hole. > > Keptin, we cannot maintain orbit! I’m still waiting for the phaser cutting phasers. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/49 "2010-07-30T21:25:12Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/50 "2010-07-30T21:26:32Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cite? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > > > > > > > > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: > > > > > > > > How large can we make this thing? > > > > > > Until the post reaches such size as to generate it’s own gravity field. > > > > > > Then it will suck in the internet, and look like a black hole. > > > > Keptin, we cannot maintain orbit! > > I’m still waiting for the phaser cutting phasers. We’re gonna need them to get out of here. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/51 "2010-07-30T21:40:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > > > > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > > > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@mlees](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@ministryman](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with the Klingons = Russians analogy. I usually go with Romulans = East Germans, but Chinese probably fits better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t see where you get East Germans at all. The Romulans appear in the series before the Klingons do, for one thing, and for another they never seem dependent on the Klingons at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Romulans and Klingons come from a common ancestor, and that fact the Federation was at war with (but would later become friends with) the Klingon Empire, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say the Klingons are West Germany and the Romulans East Germany. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cite? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that the Romulans and the Vulcans shared a common ancestor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doh! Romulans and _ **VULCANS** _…yeah, that’s what I meant…:smack: > > > > > > > > > > How large can we make this thing? > > > > > > > > Until the post reaches such size as to generate it’s own gravity field. > > > > > > > > Then it will suck in the internet, and look like a black hole. > > > > > > Keptin, we cannot maintain orbit! > > > > I’m still waiting for the phaser cutting phasers. > > We’re gonna need them to get out of here. Kind of looks like a schematic, dunnit? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/52 "2010-07-30T21:47:44Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > A very good point. However, I believe that in the Star Trek Universe, it is very difficult for a ship to go to warp speed when it is deep in a gravity well. > Since a black hole has a very steep gravity well, the attempt would probably fail. > I am certain that there are more accurate replies, but this is the best I can do on short notice. [spoiler]Except that I’m pretty sure that in TNG and beyond Federation ships are capable of exceeding lightspeed with impulse engines. In other words…you have a damn. good. point.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/53 "2010-07-30T22:18:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the Next Generation series, in the episode where an alien wiped the crew’s memory and convinces them to help destroy an enemy race, the crew has to actually look up the ship’s armament. As he reads off Enterprise-D’s weapons, Riker notes with no small amount of impress, “We’re on a battleship.” Irrespective of the main point, which is that the Enterprise was capable of acquitting itself fairly well in battle (in “Yesterday’s Enterprise” it’s implied that even the outdated Ambassador-class Enterprise-C would be useful against the Klingons, if I recall properly), the person who describes the Enterprise-D as a battleship is not Riker but “MacDuff,” who is an alien impostor trying to _convince_ them that it’s a battleship. I don’t know that it’s made clear how Starfleet views the ship. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/54 "2010-07-30T22:33:13Z")
Enough with the nested quotes. If there’s actual content to be discussed, I’ll leave this open – but if all you’re doing is dicking around with quote boxes, I’ll close it. Your choice. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/55 "2010-07-30T23:15:14Z")
Yes, M’am. Sorry, M’am. No excuse, M’am. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/56 "2010-07-31T15:26:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In Star Trek III, when Enterprise and the Bird of Prey are facing each other down, the Klingon commander (Christopher Lloyd) expresses amazement that the Enterprise doesn’t blow him away; “they outgun us ten to one!” It’s because they don’t just light him up that he realizes there’s something amiss with Enterprise. Well, sure. But that ship is explicitly tiny. I seem to recall Sulu saying its normal crew complement was only about 10-12. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/57 "2010-08-04T19:12:47Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Except that I’m pretty sure that in TNG and beyond Federation ships are capable of exceeding lightspeed with impulse engines. > > In other words…you have a damn. good. point. Absolutely not. Impulse engines are fusion-powered rockets. Full impulse power is, at best, a large fraction of light speed. [Cite.](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Impulse) The fanwank for the end of the reboot movie is: that for TOS-era starships, it is indeed very difficult to form a warp field while inside a strong gravity well, such as the black hole. Also, the Romulan antagonist was Nero, not Nemo, and the other reason he couldn’t escape is that his ship was falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/58 "2010-08-04T19:21:07Z")
[quote=“Alex\_Osaki, post:53, topic:548505”] > [@RickJay](#): > > Irrespective of the main point, which is that the Enterprise was capable of acquitting itself fairly well in battle (in “Yesterday’s Enterprise” it’s implied that even the outdated Ambassador-class Enterprise-C would be useful against the Klingons, if I recall properly), Nitpick, but I never saw that scene as indicating that the Enterprise-C would be battleworthy against modern Klingon ships. Rather, I thought the idea was just that, hey, it’s a largish ship with warp drive. Could be a troop transport, could be a freighter or a hospital ship, etc - navies need all sorts of ships in support roles. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/59 "2010-08-05T05:01:43Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > > > Except that I’m pretty sure that in TNG and beyond Federation ships are capable of exceeding lightspeed with impulse engines. > > > > In other words…you have a damn. good. point. > > Absolutely not. Impulse engines are fusion-powered rockets. Full impulse power is, at best, a large fraction of light speed. [Cite.](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Impulse) The fanwank for the end of the reboot movie is: > > that for TOS-era starships, it is indeed very difficult to form a warp field while inside a strong gravity well, such as the black hole. Also, the Romulan antagonist was Nero, not Nemo, and the other reason he couldn’t escape is that his ship was falling apart. Your spoiler also explains why the slingshot maneuver was so risky. and why pulling away at flippin’ warp 8 was only barely enough to get them away from the sun. Heck, the fact that it only affects TOS-era ships might be why it never happens from TNG on. It still doesn’t explain that first season episode of Voyager where they find a tiny wormhole to the Alpha Quadrant 20 years in the past. Grab one of the TOS era ships from mothballs, fly around the sun, and they’re home. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505/60 "2010-08-05T16:58:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It still doesn’t explain that first season episode of Voyager where they find a tiny wormhole to the Alpha Quadrant 20 years in the past. Grab one of the TOS era ships from mothballs, fly around the sun, and they’re home. Or just hide the Voyager somewhere and put the crew in stasis for 20 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relative-to-klingon-romulan-ships-how-powerful-was-kirks-enterprise/548505.md?page=2)