# Relatively few black people can swim - What?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487 "2004-04-22T19:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/1 "2004-04-22T19:20:37Z")
Is this ridiculous stereotyping or is there some element of truth to this (seemingly nonsensical) belief? And how the hell can Haitians not know how to swim? It’s part of a friggin _island_ for God’s sake! [North Miami PD Drops (swimming) Requirement In Bid To Recruit Blacks](http://www.local10.com/news/3030870/detail.html) > [@](#): > > North Miami police say they are dropping the requirement for a year. They say few departments require swimming and their officers rarely save people in water. > > Officials also believe the requirement discourages African-Americans and Haitian Americans from applying. The issue surfaced a year ago when a Haitian-American city councilman asked police to drop the requirement because he said blacks historically can’t swim. > > The request fizzled at the time. Critics say race and ethnicity are not factors when it comes to swimming ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/2 "2004-04-22T20:01:25Z")
Whether it is socio-economical or cultural or something else, I don’t know. But there is an element of truth to this. I believe there’s been discussions on here about this before. I’d say that it is stereotyping, but not ridiculously so. One can’t say “All black people can’t swim”. But to say that the requirement “to be able to swim” will generally discourage blacks from such a position is absolutely true. It doesn’t mean _all_ blacks, of course – but in general. ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/3 "2004-04-22T20:06:48Z")
My guess is that they’re not talking about innate ability (which truly would be hogwash) so much as opportunity to learn. Blacks are historically a) at an economic disadvantage and b) more likely to live in an urban/inner-city environment, and I’m willing to bet these circumstances could combine to produce a lower percentage of blacks who know how to swim. As for the Haiti thing–well, not everybody who lives on an island lives/works on the water, and I daresay many people are more concerned with making a living than taking a jaunt down to the beach. All that being said, I don’t have any actual statistics for you. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/4 "2004-04-22T20:23:47Z")
I’ve heard the stereotype before. My freshman year at college, my roommate was a black guy from Rochester, NY. I don’t remember how it came up, but at one point he mentioned he couldn’t swim and, as way of explanation, said (semi-jokingly) “you know black people can’t swim”. That was the first time I’d heard of that, and he wasn’t completely serious, but the idea that fewer black people can swim seems to be out there (which, of course, doesn’t address whether it’s actually true). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/5 "2004-04-22T20:31:19Z")
Well, according to my admittedly rascist mother, the reason most blacks can’t swim is because they don’t have the body fat to stay afloat as easily as white folk. If you consider the average person, there might just be a grain of truth to this. But most likely, it is socio-economic, not fat-related. ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/6 "2004-04-22T21:13:53Z")
I have never heard of this before but I’d tend to assume it was down to some statistic from years ago, based on factors like lack of facilities and economic disadvantage, which became public “knowledge” detached from any underlying reality. So “the studied group of black people proved not to have had the opportunity to learn to swim” becomes “black people can’t swim”. ---
**Author:** ![Thinks2Much](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Thinks2Much](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thinks2Much)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/7 "2004-04-22T22:02:46Z")
Here are a couple of reports that talk about drowning and the facts are that more African American children drown. The one mentions a self-reported study that says African Americans report they can swim less than other races, but when I googled the report they footnote, I found nothing new. [drowning1](http://wapt-tvhealth.ip2m.com/index.cfm?pt=itemDetail&item_id=12266&site_cat_id=13) [self reports](http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drown.htm) ---
**Author:** ![twelvericepaddies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@twelvericepaddies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twelvericepaddies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/8 "2004-04-22T22:07:16Z")
Pay attention to this in the future and you will find it to be absolutely true - the curse of modern Liberals is to make excuses for everything they do not like. My ex never could stop doing what the previous poster did - which is to say 'I don’t know anything about this, and I am making an assumption, but it must be because…" There is NOTHING, NO THING that a whiney Liberal cannot make an excuse for - and that excuse (always a fictive guess) also is supposed to terminate any further consideration of the matter. p.s. to Whiney Liberals - we all know your abilities to generate instant excuses for everything, so why bother? Second, has reality ever interfered with your lip-flapping excuses? ---
**Author:** ![xvxdarkknightxvx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/34f0e0/32.png) [@xvxdarkknightxvx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xvxdarkknightxvx)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/9 "2004-04-22T22:13:53Z")
Wait, what? Am I in the right thread? ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/10 "2004-04-22T22:23:48Z")
Weird… I _think_ twelvericepaddies is saying that black people really, simply can’t swim, and we (the whiny liberals) are trying to rationalise that into our stupid whiny world. That’s assuming it isn’t something 12rp meant to post in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/11 "2004-04-22T22:24:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Well, according to my admittedly rascist mother, the reason most blacks can’t swim is because they don’t have the body fat to stay afloat as easily as white folk. If you consider the average person, there might just be a grain of truth to this. But most likely, it is socio-economic, not fat-related. Great Apes like Gorillas and Chimpanzees cannot swim because of their bone density. I’ve hear the racist arugement that blacks can’t swim because they are not as evolved and more “monkey” like. Less fat, or denser bones… I seriously doubt that something in their physiology prevents many from swimming. I know black soldiers who are scuba qualified. There are black swimmers out there. But it is just far more common to hear from blacks “I can’t swim” and “you know black people can’t swim” I wonder if the “swim test” is why there are so few black Green Berets or Navy SEALS? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/12 "2004-04-22T22:50:07Z")
> [@twelvericepaddies](#): > > Pay attention to this in the future and you will find it to be absolutely true - the curse of modern Liberals is to make excuses for everything they do not like. My ex never could stop doing what the previous poster did - which is to say 'I don’t know anything about this, and I am making an assumption, but it must be because…" There is NOTHING, NO THING that a whiney Liberal cannot make an excuse for - and that excuse (always a fictive guess) also is supposed to terminate any further consideration of the matter. p.s. to Whiney Liberals - we all know your abilities to generate instant excuses for everything, so why bother? Second, has reality ever interfered with your lip-flapping excuses? I’m a liberal!? Well slap my ass and call me a limousine! ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/13 "2004-04-22T22:50:32Z")
> [@twelvericepaddies](#): > > Pay attention to this in the future and you will find it to be absolutely true - the curse of modern Liberals is to make excuses for everything they do not like. My ex never could stop doing what the previous poster did - which is to say 'I don’t know anything about this, and I am making an assumption, but it must be because…" There is NOTHING, NO THING that a whiney Liberal cannot make an excuse for - and that excuse (always a fictive guess) also is supposed to terminate any further consideration of the matter. p.s. to Whiney Liberals - we all know your abilities to generate instant excuses for everything, so why bother? Second, has reality ever interfered with your lip-flapping excuses? The only thing worse than a whiney liberal is a conservative who confuses explanations with excuses. The poster you commented on basically said a sample study showed black people on average knew how to swim less often than whites because they have less access to swimming facilities. What exactly about that do you find whiney? Black people tend to live in the inner city more where access to swimming pools is limited, therefore many do not ever learn how to swim. How would you explain it? Or is coming up with reasons for things based on evidence against your political ideology? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/14 "2004-04-22T22:59:27Z")
> [@TitoBenito](#): > > The only thing worse than a whiney liberal is a conservative who confuses explanations with excuses. The poster you commented on basically said a sample study showed black people on average knew how to swim less often than whites because they have less access to swimming facilities. What exactly about that do you find whiney? Black people tend to live in the inner city more where access to swimming pools is limited, therefore many do not ever learn how to swim. How would you explain it? Or is coming up with reasons for things based on evidence against your political ideology? So I’m _not_ the liberal? Little golden boy Thinks2Much gets to be the liberal? [sub]sulks[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/15 "2004-04-22T23:18:19Z")
> [@TitoBenito](#): > > …Black people tend to live in the inner city more where access to swimming pools is limited, therefore many do not ever learn how to swim… In my middle sized middle English market town the swimming pool is just as accesible to blacks as it is to whites, as were swimming lessons at school. But a significantly higher proportion of my black friends can’t/don’t swim than that of my white friends. I’d go so far as to say that, of the people I know, it’s as unusual to find a black who can swim as to find a white who can’t. Obviously not a scientific survey… ---
**Author:** ![Thinks2Much](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Thinks2Much](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thinks2Much)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/16 "2004-04-22T23:24:02Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So I’m _not_ the liberal? Little golden boy Thinks2Much gets to be the liberal? [sub]sulks[/sub] I promise to share my title if you call me by the right sex- I would be a little golden girl, thank you. Shall I also write a terribly generalizing post in the wrong forum that you conservatives automatically assume anyone who actually provided some facts and not an opinion is automatically a man? 😛 (just teasing) ---
**Author:** ![citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citrus_x_paradisi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/17 "2004-04-22T23:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally spake unto the huddled masses by **Thinks2Much** :\* > In my middle sized middle English market town the swimming pool is just as accesible to blacks as it is to whites\* Even if whites and blacks were on the same economic level in your area, which I doubt, they haven’t always been-- meaning that swimming could easily be part of a white family’s tradition moreso than a black family. Funny, I just heard about a swimming scholarship at Harvard. The plot thickens! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/18 "2004-04-22T23:39:15Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Whether it is socio-economical or cultural or something else, I don’t know. But there is an element of truth to this. I believe there’s been discussions on here about this before. > > . Sure, and we also grow tails at midnight :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Thinks2Much](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Thinks2Much](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thinks2Much)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/19 "2004-04-22T23:57:39Z")
> [@citrus x paradisi](#): > > Spoke unto the huddled masses by Thinks2Much! What on earth is going on here??? Look, I was the only one who quoted actual research, damn it! I said no such thing about my town!!! Please, people, pull it together. I am not a liberal, I did not provide opinion, I am not a boy. I was THE ONLY PERSON to wander into this thread who tried to provide some science to this discussion!!! If you’re going to quote someone or comment on someone else’s post, use their NAME and the RIGHT NAME. The ignorance in this thread astounds, it truly does. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487/20 "2004-04-23T00:02:00Z")
My co-worker/friend Peaches has told me she (and other black girls and women) doesn’t swim because of hair issues. Straightened hair plus water means “bad hair.” That was her word for it, by the way. Don’t know how this might lead to black males not swimming, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relatively-few-black-people-can-swim-what/241487.md?page=2)