# Relic. Grand Nazi Rat. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277 "2005-04-20T18:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/21 "2005-04-21T03:33:51Z")
I didn’t know smurfs drank. **Absolute** , I took it as a clarification to the “all germans are nazis” accusation, but whatever. Not trying to get all up in your grill over this. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/22 "2005-04-21T03:46:54Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > It sounds like he actually believes ‘Nazi’ is an accurate characterization. Had he replied with “I’m not calling every German a Nazi, it’s just a joke, lighten up!”, I wouldn’t be whining about it. I was a little annoyed with that myself. I know that jokes can be offensive, I just thought that since this joke operated independent of the fact that Cardinal Ratzinger is German, there was no need for alarm. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/23 "2005-04-21T03:53:37Z")
“Pope Benedict XVI” anagrams to “Biconvex Peptide” It’s not astoundingly funny, just bizarre-funny, but it’s intriguing that it produced two quite long clear words. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/24 "2005-04-21T04:58:37Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I am German-Lithuanian, and if you call my father or any of my family on his side a Nazi they’ll be as offended as if they were black and you had called them a nigger. Yeah, but were your father and his family part of the Nazi-frickin’-Youth? I wouldn’t care if the pope was from Bhutan- if he was a member of the Nazi Youth, he’s prime game for Nazi Youth jokes. And if we can’t laugh at the Nazis, who can we laugh at? Carnalize darn grit. Anglican Tzar rider. Crainial Retard- Zing! ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/25 "2005-04-21T05:11:38Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > I am not calling every German a Nazi. > > Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth. However, Ratzinger was never a member of the Nazi party. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/26 "2005-04-21T05:14:55Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Yeah, but were your father and his family part of the Nazi-frickin’-Youth? Or the Hitler youth AND the German army during WWII, as Ratzinger was? Now, granted, he was drafted into that, too, but the situation is still pretty iffy. Does anyone have, say, a record of any statements he’s made during his life as a public figure about his actions in that era? Because those would be a hell of a lot more relevant to discussions of his Nazi-dom or non-Nazi-dom than this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/27 "2005-04-21T05:17:07Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Yeah, but were your father and his family part of the Nazi-frickin’-Youth? I wouldn’t care if the pope was from Bhutan- if he was a member of the Nazi Youth, he’s prime game for Nazi Youth jokes. > > And if we can’t laugh at the Nazis, who can we laugh at? Some members of his family were, yes. What part of “it was mandatory” did you not understand? And really, your argument makes no sense. Would you feel the same way if someone said “I don’t care if the guy was from Ireland, if he’s black, he’s prime game for black jokes”? I don’t have a problem with “laughing” at real Nazis (although I must admit I fail to seem much humor in that topic), I have a problem with people thinking it’s funny to call ordinary Germans Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/28 "2005-04-21T05:39:19Z")
Germans do have a sense of humor, and the film The Producers (German title: Springtime For Hitler) was a huge hit. Even Hogan’s Heros was a hit on German television. I have a problem with people throwing the term Nazi around every time a German is involved in anything. I lived in Berlin for 14 years. I know how those German kids feel when they travel the world and get called Nazi by every ignorant bigot. Maybe that is why I get pissed off on this board when I see Nazi in a thread title. We have Germans who are members and I do not see any humor in making some 15 year old, 30 year old, or 40 year old German get this thrown into his face again and again. You can go to prison in Germany for having a Nazi flag, or uniform or any other relic of that horrific time. German kids learn about the war and they take school trips to the sites of the camps. Their grandparents, Nazis or not, were killed in the war. Entire cities were destroyed. They live through it every day of their lives. So maybe it is all a big ha ha for some of you, but for a German reading threads on a board that supposedly fights ignorance, tossing the word Nazi around is no joke. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/29 "2005-04-21T05:46:00Z")
Just curious, but have any actual Germans objected to the OP yet? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/30 "2005-04-21T05:49:51Z")
Nein! ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/31 "2005-04-21T05:56:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just curious, but have any actual Germans objected to the OP yet? I doubt any will. It is always a lose lose situation for them. They certainly can’t and won’t defend their past, they live under perpetual guilt, and any attempt to distance themself from that part of their history comes across as denial. And if they do open their mouth, someone will pipe up with, “well, was your dad/grandfater a Nazi?” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/32 "2005-04-21T06:06:21Z")
Okay fine, here: Nazi Regard Nil- cart! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/33 "2005-04-21T11:07:16Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I doubt any will. It is always a lose lose situation for them. They certainly can’t and won’t defend their past, they live under perpetual guilt, and any attempt to distance themself from that part of their history comes across as denial. > > And if they do open their mouth, someone will pipe up with, “well, was your dad/grandfater a Nazi?” Yeah, that must be why no germans have spoken up. Because of the perpetual guilt. :rolleyes: It could be because they know that **the op was not saying that he was a nazi just because he was german**. It could also be that they **read the op and saw that he wasn’t trying to imply anything**. Nah. What was I thinking? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/34 "2005-04-21T12:44:56Z")
_German hotel guest:_ “… We did NOT! START! Ze WAR!” _Basil Fawlty:_ “Yes you did; you invaded Poland.” ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/35 "2005-04-21T12:45:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just curious, but have any actual Germans objected to the OP yet? It’s not worth it. The German-Nazi associations are so common on the net that you can’t get upset about every single instance, and this one is pretty harmless. It’s also important to realize that many people who perpetuate those stereotypes are just uninformed. e.g. all those people who find it noteworthy that he was in the Hitler Youth - He was born in 1927 and living in Germany during the relevant time. _Of course_ he was in the Hitler Youth. Had he not been there for some odd reason, _that_ would have been news. However, just as I don’t know who did what in the Continental Congress and can’t give you a timeline of the American Civil War, I can’t expect all foreigners to know what being in the Hitler Youth means and what it doesn’t mean or why it is so unsurprising that he was drafted into the army. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/36 "2005-04-21T13:55:45Z")
> [@RTA](#): > > _German hotel guest:_ “… We did NOT! START! Ze WAR!” > > _Basil Fawlty:_ “Yes you did; you invaded Poland.” Actually, it goes: German guest: Please stop mentioning the war. Basil: You started it. German: We did not. Basil: Yes you did; you invaded Poland." ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/37 "2005-04-22T19:06:20Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > It sounds like he actually believes ‘Nazi’ is an accurate characterization. Had he replied with “I’m not calling every German a Nazi, it’s just a joke, lighten up!”, I wouldn’t be whining about it. I actually accept an an argument of this sort: “Yes, it is remarkable that the letters of ‘mother theresa’ anagram to ‘cleptomaniac gonorrhea’, but is in very bad taste to make any such implication about that person”. Ratzinger was in the Hilter Youth, and I think that is my license to exaggerate and satirize. Everything seems to indicate Ratzinger was no Nazi like Himmler or Waldheim. Contrast him, however, with theologian [Dietrich Bonhoeffer](http://www.dbonhoeffer.org/who-was-db2.htm) who died because of his opposition to Nazism. I do not claim that every person who did not resist Nazism to the extent of Bonhoeffer is equivalent to Himmler, but there were things people could do to resist Nazism. For the new Pope, the costs of not participating in the German war machine were more than he cared to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/38 "2005-04-22T21:10:36Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Ratzinger was in the Hilter Youth, and I think that is my license to exaggerate and satirize. Everything seems to indicate Ratzinger was no Nazi like Himmler or Waldheim. Contrast him, however, with theologian [Dietrich Bonhoeffer](http://www.dbonhoeffer.org/who-was-db2.htm) who died because of his opposition to Nazism. > > I do not claim that every person who did not resist Nazism to the extent of Bonhoeffer is equivalent to Himmler, but there were things people could do to resist Nazism. For the new Pope, the costs of not participating in the German war machine were more than he cared to pay. Yeah, but Dietrich Bonhoffer wasn’t a 14 year old boy at the time. Besides, it looks like he did resist. From here: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7751-2005Apr21.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7751-2005Apr21.html) > [@](#): > > Soon after, however, the seminary was closed and converted into a military hospital, and Ratzinger transferred to the local high school. He has said he stopped attending Hitler Youth meetings, which became a problem because without a certificate of attendance, he could not get a reduction in school fees – “which I really needed badly,” he recounted in “Salt of the Earth.” But he said a sympathetic math teacher, a Nazi, came to his rescue by faking the certificate. "When he saw that I really didn’t want to go, he said, ‘I can get it settled,’ " Ratzinger recalled. So he didn’t go to meetings and got his math teacher to forge attendence certificates. Then, later, he was conscripted into the army and deserted. And that could have gotten him shot. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/39 "2005-04-22T21:29:46Z")
I wonder how someone on this board would feel if they were forced by into an organization that went against everything they stood for practically at gun point, then fifty years later people insult you and degrade you by pointing out that you were a member of said organization. To try to give this some relevance to Americans, imagine if your parents were Ku Klux Klan members, forced you to join their Youth organization, beat the hell out of you if you put up a fuss, then years later people call you a racist and a Klansman eventhough you were never part of the “adult” organization and bitterly opposed their views and suffered because of that opposition. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277/40 "2005-04-22T21:47:00Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Ratzinger was in the Hilter Youth, and I think that is my license to exaggerate and satirize. Everything seems to indicate Ratzinger was no Nazi like Himmler or Waldheim. Contrast him, however, with theologian [Dietrich Bonhoeffer](http://www.dbonhoeffer.org/who-was-db2.htm) who died because of his opposition to Nazism. > > I do not claim that every person who did not resist Nazism to the extent of Bonhoeffer is equivalent to Himmler, but there were things people could do to resist Nazism. For the new Pope, the costs of not participating in the German war machine were more than he cared to pay. You keep saying it’s just a joke, but it sure seems like you have an agenda there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/relic-grand-nazi-rat/300277.md?page=3)