# Religeous pet peeve: spreading of religeon **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837 "2003-07-21T02:36:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/41 "2003-07-21T05:34:32Z")
In that case **Tygr** can we agree to disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/42 "2003-07-21T05:39:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\*…he’s making His4Ever’s favorite argument: Don’t hate me for what I believe, because I believe what I believe, and that’s what I believe. \*\* Gosh, is _that_ what I was saying? Really? I didn’t realize that when I was typing it… Actually, I really know almost nothing about **His4ever** or what he argued. In all honesty, I’d really like to be more like my friend **Polycarp** when it comes to discussing Christianity. But, since it’ll be at least another hundred years before I’m as patient, erudite, well-read, and learned about my own faith, well, I’m just gonna keep trying to do the best I can. That said, my _actual_ point with my admittedly sarcastic post above is that we either follow our teachings or we avoid annoying people. Christ knew this was a possible choice his followers faced. That’s why he offered the solace that, when we are reviled, that it’s okay, for we have God’s blessing for it. Yes, it’s a kind of martyrdom, I guess, to risk the disapproval of your peers for telling them the Truth. In fact, I don’t have the strength of character to confidently go out and proclaim the Truth. I’m too insecure to be a good witness - the good opinion of others is still too important to me to risk annoying them with talk of my faith. Another thing I look up to Polycarp for. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/43 "2003-07-21T05:41:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > \*\*In that case **Tygr** can we agree to disagree? \*\* Okay. But only if you’ll say you still like me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/44 "2003-07-21T05:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tygr \* > \*\*Okay. > > But only if you’ll say you still like me. > > 😉 \*\* Ok 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/45 "2003-07-21T05:54:20Z")
I still like you. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/46 "2003-07-21T05:56:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tygr \* > **That said, my _actual_ point with my admittedly sarcastic post above is that we either follow our teachings or we avoid annoying people. Christ knew this was a possible choice his followers faced. That’s why he offered the solace that, when we are reviled, that it’s okay, for we have God’s blessing for it.** Well, I’m sometimes annoyed when I hear “the Truth” for the hundredth or thousandth or whateverth time. The first time it’s interesting. The fifth time, it can still be interesting with a good presentation. The fiftieth time, it would be nice if people would just shut up, and yes, I might get a bit annoyed. > [@](#): > > Yes, it’s a kind of martyrdom, I guess, to risk the disapproval of your peers for telling them the Truth. In fact, I don’t have the strength of character to confidently go out and proclaim the Truth. I’m too insecure to be a good witness - the good opinion of others is still too important to me to risk annoying them with talk of my faith. Another thing I look up to Polycarp for. Why do you need to be a martyr for your faith? If the twentieth time I heard “the Truth” I rejected it, why do you think that by having different people present “the Truth” another hundred times that I’ll come to accept it? It’s more likely that I’ll be severely annoyed than that I’ll come to accept “the Truth.” ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/47 "2003-07-21T05:59:19Z")
I find this quote here interesting: > [@](#): > > Jesus is in the Koran, he’s a big part of the Islamic faith Er … maybe there’s something I missed, but I don’t recall Jesus being anything to Muslims than another prophet. ---
**Author:** ![skyzoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@skyzoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skyzoo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/48 "2003-07-21T06:28:36Z")
“Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary,…use words” —Francis of Assisi Actions speak louder than words… “Go forth and **BE** my witnesses…” —Jesus (not yackity-yakity, … **BE** … i.e.behave in such a way that love is evident!) Shoving your belief down peoples eardums does not persuade! It dissuades! Hello? I agree with **lel** ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/49 "2003-07-21T06:47:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > **Well, I’m sometimes annoyed when I hear “the Truth” for the hundredth or thousandth or whateverth time. The first time it’s interesting. The fifth time, it can still be interesting with a good presentation. The fiftieth time, it would be nice if people would just shut up, and yes, I might get a bit annoyed.** Hm… Fifty times, you say? ::checks computer:: I’m terribly sorry sir, there must be an incorrect entry in our database. I believe I have fixed it now, however, be advised that you still may be witnessed to during the next four to six weeks while our field operatives are updating their listings. 😉 Sorry, there’s that sarcasm again. But do you see my point? We don’t have a world-wide “Do Not Witness-To” list. And besides, there’s as many takes on Christianity as there are Christians. If you were to tell Polycarp your experiences with witnesses, he’d give you one take on their methods & message. I’m sure I would give you a different one. _ **And you might like his better.** _ Honestly, who’s to say? You might find his discussion of the methods and message of faith truly compelling. You might find a point where he can’t answer a question of yours and he invites you to his church so his minister can give a better answer. And you like the church atmosphere and find it warm and welcoming enough that you come back for a couple of weeks. Then Polycarp or his minister tells you something that resonates on a deep inner emotional level. See? Witnessing is not supposed to be browbeating you until you fall on your knees weeping at your own pathetic miserable God forsaken life and crawling forward begging forgiveness. At least, I don’t think it should be. See, I picture witnessing as kind of like eating cake: Me: Mmm! This is really good cake! Would you like to try some? lel: No, thanks. Me: It’s really, really good cake. Chocolate, with fudge icing. lel: No, thanks. I really don’t like cake. Me: Sure you don’t want a bite? lel: No, thanks anyway. \ Someone Else: Want to try some cake? lel: _sigh_ No, I really don’t like cake. Someone Else: You’re stupid if you don’t like cake. \ Someone Else 2: Want to try some cake? lel: FERCRYIN OUT LOUD! WOULD YOU QUIT TRYING TO FORCE-FEED ME YOUR LOUSY CAKE! * * * Then there’s **lezlers** ’s example: lezlers: Boy this is good flan. Someone Else: Flan is stupid. Stop eating flan and eat this cake. And quit trying to give other people flan when they should only have cake! \ Polycarp: Mmm! This is really good cake! Would you like to try some? lezlers: No. Cake eaters are mean. Polycarp: Really? I’m sorry you’ve found that. Say, what IS flan? lezlers: Well, it’s {description of flan}. Say, what’s in your cake? * * * To my way of thinking, the best witnessing is a simple discussion of what one believes. And besides, it helps me gain a clearer understanding of my own beliefs. [sub]DISCLAIMER: Above Dopers’ names were used for illustration purposes only and should not imply any acquiescence on said Dopers’ part(s) to having their names used for said illustrative purposes. Should above-referrenced Dopers have any objection to having their names used for illustrative purposes please note that no offense was intended and I’m really, really sorry.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/50 "2003-07-21T07:24:05Z")
**Tygr** , I hope you’re not hoping to get a lot of money in this thread because MHO might not even be worth two cents;) I think the best witnessing, in terms of actually saying stuff, is the kind of witnessing where the one who is being witnessed to starts the witnessing process by, say, asking “what do you think of this [thing that has bearing on religion]?” Asking about the Braves’ baseball season, for example, doesn’t really have a lot to do with religion. Capitol punishment does. A supermarket sale doesn’t. Religion in schools does. Get what I’m saying? I’m not trying to say YOU HORRIBLE EVIL VILE FUNDIE YOU!!! DIIIIIIIIIIIIIE! DIE … AND I’M THROWING AWAY YOUR GODDAMN FUCKING CAKE TOO! IT DOESN’T EVEN EXIIIIIIIIIIIIST! I’m saying that I, for example, have been minding my own business and people walk up to me and witness to me. Or they try, anyway. I don’t take too kindly to it just as I imagine you wouldn’t take too well to being interrupted by someone who JUST HAS TO CONVINCE YOU THAT THE BRAVES ARE THE ONLY BASEBALL TEAM AND IF YOU DON’T ROOT FOR THEM YOU’RE GOING TO HAYULLLLL! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/51 "2003-07-21T07:26:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tygr \* > \*\*Okay. > > But only if you’ll say you still like me. > > 😉 \*\* I like you in a red wine sauce with shallots and mushrooms with a side of au gratin potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/52 "2003-07-21T07:45:08Z")
Uh… ummm… _gulp_…um-a-HEM! Y-yes. Do-does that…er, ah…does that mean you…uh…want to eat me…? And is that a ah…a good thing…? (IhopeIhopeIhope…) But darling, au gratin? Honestly, _nothing_ I own looks good in cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/53 "2003-07-21T07:56:45Z")
**iampunha** : VILE SUPER FAN YOU!!! THE BRAVES DON’T EVEN EXIIIIIIIIIIIIST! 😉 Seriously, I’m a little in awe of the witnesses you describe. I get sick at the thought of talking to strangers. I paralyze myself trying to plan out the exact conversation. I’m half-convinced that I’m still unemployed because my palms start to sweat & I wind up dropping the phone when I start to cold-call prospective employers. And I DO get your point. Kinda hard to figure out the conversation when a stranger walks up to you and says “Have you heard the word of Jesus, yet?” I honestly think most evangelicals would benfit greatly from a course from Zig Ziglar. Ya gotta know yer basic sales tactics before you can do any sellin’… I mean I’d have a hard time being convinced to pull for the Braves by a drunk guy with his torso painted blue. Always know yer audience. Zig does. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/54 "2003-07-21T14:07:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > \*\ ***Ben** , how about I just say that it is important to respect the beliefs of others in the sense that I’m not a fan of openly denigrating their beliefs, unless they are harmful to the life of adherents? \*\* What if their beliefs harm non-adherents? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/55 "2003-07-21T14:44:28Z")
> [@](#): > > What if their beliefs harm non-adherents? Then you have to contrast what they believe with what others believe, and decide which (if any) is valid. If you find, for instance, that some set of beliefs was responsible for the deaths of [millions of people,](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021018.html) that would not necessarily invalidate the beliefs. You have to remember that truth is not always convenient. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/56 "2003-07-21T15:04:37Z")
That doesn’t address the point at all, Shodan. We weren’t talking about the fact that FCism is invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/57 "2003-07-21T17:02:18Z")
What point is that? The truth or otherwise of a statement is independent of how harmful it is. Or are you arguing that it is better not to know the truth if it is going to hurt your feelings? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/58 "2003-07-21T19:33:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*What point is that? > > The truth or otherwise of a statement is independent of how harmful it is. \*\* When have I said otherwise? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Or are you arguing that it is better not to know the truth if it is going to hurt your feelings? > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* No, I’m arguing quite the opposite. Lel is saying that it’s better not to be so confrontational towards the demon-worshippers. I’m saying that since they are, in fact, demon-worshippers, then we should call them such, even though doing so will hurt their feelings. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/59 "2003-07-21T19:40:17Z")
**Tygr** , from my experience (having tried to witness to people and having failed MISERABLY), while I understand your plight in ignoring a tent of your religion vs. respecting people’s wishes … well, how do you go about witnessing?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837/60 "2003-07-21T22:22:21Z")
Up to this point? Very, very badly. Seems that while the Lord issued me that Commandment, well… I’m still trying to find where within me He buried the self-confidence to carry it out. Then again, when I find a misunderstanding about my faith, as in the OP, I do try my best to correct it, with the tools I have at my disposal (sarcasm & flippancy) 😉 . Guess I’m kind of an Oversight Witness (coming in after and correcting the messes which those who preceded me left). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religeous-pet-peeve-spreading-of-religeon/189837.md?page=4)