# Religion and Work Schedules - What Degree of Accomodation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786 "2007-11-09T15:27:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/21 "2007-11-14T03:33:25Z")
[QUOTE=villa] Well the simple solution there would be to follow whatever practice would be in place if person A and person B both wanted the same day off in any other situation. Presumably there is a company policy based on seniority, or first person who applies, or whatever. In the present legal environment, however, it may be the case that person A must be given priority over person B. And that strikes me as a tad unfair. [/QUOTE] The problem is, in a Mon- Fri, legal holidays off situation, it probably seems unfair to the non-Christians if they can’t even get priority to take time off for their religious observances , while Christians automatically get the day off for their most important observances. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/22 "2007-11-14T03:54:42Z")
I just had to turn an otherwise qualified candidate away for a major engineering construction project because due to his religious beliefs he refused to make himself available should they need him on Saturday, which while not a normal schedule would be very likely to happen at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/23 "2007-11-14T03:54:48Z")
Holidays are one thing. Even though I was a senior operator, I would never get a weekend day off, as the majority of folks working in the department all went to church with our manager, and so all got Saturday and Sunday off for chucrch and church functions. I complained, and got moved to the night shift. But I got a weekend! It is very much a problem, and it probably won’t be going away any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/24 "2007-11-14T03:55:58Z")
[Religious Accommodation in the Workplace](http://www.adl.org/religious_freedom/resource_kit/religion_workplace.asp) looks like a decent source for more information. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/25 "2007-11-14T15:44:10Z")
[QUOTE=villa] Work has been a little insane recently - we have a trial in a few weeks, and so it has been 7 days a week for a while now. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s my experience working with the legal profession that law firms are generally equal opportunity when it comes to being inconsiderate regarding holidays, weekends and other personal time. The trend I’ve seen in professional businesses is to provide employees with either “floating holidays” or “personal time off” days that can be used whenever. So you get 20 PTO days you can use if you’re sick, for vacation or to celebrate Festivus or whatever without loss of pay. Personally, I’m not sure why people’s religeous needs should be taken account any more than their kickball league or any other hobbies they might have. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/26 "2007-11-14T18:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I know Walmart sent notices to all their stores saying let anyone off on Sunday that wants off for church. [/QUOTE] So do Muslim employees get Friday off if they want it? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/27 "2007-11-14T18:39:49Z")
[QUOTE=Desert Nomad] So do Muslim employees get Friday off if they want it? [/QUOTE] Or Buckeye fans on Saturday? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/28 "2007-11-14T18:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I can remember a case where Walmart denied an employee off time to go to church on Sunday. The store kept scheduling him on Sunday and he kept saying he couldn’t work on Sunday due to church. The time came when they scheduled him on Sunday and he didn’t show up and was fired. He sued and won $100,000 and his job back if he wanted it, probably didn’t. I thought it was a fair call. I know Walmart sent notices to all their stores saying let anyone off on Sunday that wants off for church. [/QUOTE] If this is the case I found, Tincher v. WalMart Stores, she, not he, was fired for reasons including, she claimed, her refusal to work on Friday nights/Saturdays (as a Seventh Day Adventist). While the initial award was $6,000 compensatory, $3,000 and $90,000 punitives, the punitive damages were struck by the Court of Appeals, leaving the recovery at $9,000, assuming this did not get appealed further or end in a settlement while another appeal was pending. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/29 "2007-11-16T01:03:40Z")
[QUOTE=villa] If this is the case I found, Tincher v. WalMart Stores, she, not he, was fired for reasons including, she claimed, her refusal to work on Friday nights/Saturdays (as a Seventh Day Adventist). While the initial award was $6,000 compensatory, $3,000 and $90,000 punitives, the punitive damages were struck by the Court of Appeals, leaving the recovery at $9,000, assuming this did not get appealed further or end in a settlement while another appeal was pending. [/QUOTE] Not the case, this happened approximately 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/30 "2007-11-16T13:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Not the case, this happened approximately 15 years ago. [/QUOTE] Can you give me any more information on it than Walmart and approximately 15 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/31 "2007-11-16T16:37:27Z")
If someone wants to pray while I go cop a smoke, I’m cool with that. If someone wants to do nothing while I cop a smoke, I’m cool with that too. If my boss tells me I can only smoke on my 15 min break, I’m also fine with that. But scheduled workdays off for the religious? No. Everyone should be allowed to take the day or no one can. I disagree with affording special status to religion. You wanna believe? Fine. But no special treatment. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/32 "2007-11-16T17:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=villa] Can you give me any more information on it than Walmart and approximately 15 years ago? [/QUOTE] I was working at Walmart at the time, I saw it in the newspaper, I saw the notice management sent around, can’t remember the names, too long ago, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/33 "2007-11-17T04:39:43Z")
I think the case **lekatt** is remembering was one brought by Scott Hamby, which Walmart settled in 1995. I couldn’t find much on the case, but this is the beginning of a St. Lois Post-Dispatch article from Aug 23,1995 > [@](#): > > Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said Tuesday it had reached an out-of-court settlement with a former employee who charged the nation’s largest retailer with religious discrimination. > > The settlement includes an undisclosed payment to the Baptist employee. He had claimed that he was forced to quit his job at the Wal-Mart in Bolivar, Mo., after refusing to work on Sunday, his Sabbath. Wal-Mart also agreed to train its managers on workers’ religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/34 "2007-11-17T21:52:04Z")
Fair enough. Settlements tend not to be very interesting, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/35 "2007-11-19T10:01:02Z")
The thing is, if I’m running a restaurant or retail operation and specify that upon an applicant’s acceptance of employment, the hours included or would potentially include Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Festivus or Groundhog Day due to increased business expectations for those times, should the employee be bent out of shape that s/he was required to work them in spite of religious observances? Frankly, the guarantee of freedom of religion does in no way mean accomodation for any and all religious rites, rituals or observances. If your religion is that important to you, politely decline employment offers that would conflict with these things or suck it up and pay your dues until you have enough standing to take the time off. BTW, I would be happy if my company took the four recognized holidays when we are closed and made them floating holidays like they did the rest. The biggest reason we’re closed then, is that shipping is difficult on those days. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786/36 "2007-11-19T13:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I don’t think that religion should get any special priority. I think it’s fairer to simply give people a number of paid holidays, and let them pre-schedule and use them as they see fit. If person A wants to use a day to go to a religious holiday, and Person B to a football game, I see no difference. On the other hand, if whatever he’s doing that day is so important that he can’t skip a day to go to a game, I don’t think that he should be allowed to for a religious event either; saying that it does amounts to a claim that religion gives you permission to screw people over, **or** that whatever you need him for isn’t really as urgent as you say. [/QUOTE] I agree with this. Use your days off as you will and if your religion is a priority that’s your choice. It also depends on what contribution the employee makes. From a management pov an employee who consistently higher quality contribution will get more accommodation if they need unscheduled time off no matter what the reason. I do think if an employee knows up front that an employee can’t work Sunday morning and hires them knowing that it’s bad form to later insist they miss church to work. If an employee does a great job you might be willing to give them breaks to accommodate prayer time. Otherwise I don’t think any employee can demand an employer adjust the job to suit their religion any more than they should adjust it to suit their family, life or their passion for Nascar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-and-work-schedules-what-degree-of-accomodation/425786.md?page=1)