# Religion at Work...Help me explain this no-no **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317 "2004-02-09T20:09:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/61 "2004-02-11T19:38:09Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Oy. What exactly do you think might happen to you if someone loves Jesus? Or Buddha? Or Mohammed? I’ve resigned myself by now to the fact that the hand-stabbers will go into hysterics over the slightest hint of anything religious, but I do not yet understand why. Why the Slim Wittman effect? You don’t mind invoking the name of Jesus whenever you want to turn a colorful swearing phrase. In fact, you applaud one another and wallow in it. “Jesus on a cracker!” “Oh, band name!” […giggles…] So, why do you mind so terribly when someone invokes His name reverently? Because when people invoke the name of Jesus reverently, _in many cases_ it’s not long before they attempt to get you to invoke the name of Jesus reverently, or start telling you unasked why the name of Jesus should be involed reverently or some other garbage like that. Not always, no, but IME most of the time many Xans can’t just celebrate their _individual, personal_ relationship with Christ and leave me the fuck out of their superstitions. Further, many of them seem to feel that they have the inate right to impose their religion upon people that do not share it, no matter what those other people might believe. Religion is a personal matter, between each individual and his/her God. Anything else is grossly inapropriate. OTOH, someone who says “Jesus! That falling box almost took my head off!” is, IME, highly unlikely to turn to you and say “Come on, shout it out with me; “Jesus! It just missed!””. ---
**Author:** ![Winterwren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Winterwren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winterwren)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/62 "2004-02-11T23:21:03Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > I got hit with this annoying variety of proselytizing in my LiveJournal last week. I posted my thoughts on the oddity of people’s interactions with each other and lo and behold there comes BLOG SPAM! You can see an example of it [here](http://www.livejournal.com/users/flying_blind/499196.html?thread=747772#t747772). (Note: not my journal.) What a way to lose viewers before you even start, blog spammers! Please walk into a tar pit and die! So the blog spam hit you, too. I got it Monday morning; I think it’s set to hit people who post at certain times of day. And I hope they rot in the hell of their nightmares for it. Isn’t there something in the Old Testament about praying in secret, not proclaiming it to the heavens? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/63 "2004-02-11T23:38:51Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Oh, you’d be surprised the rights owners have on their own property – even part owners. Of course, we don’t know who owns the building, or what the terms of the lease are, but unless they have arrangements to the contrary, they have every “right” to use (and decorate) the common areas as they see fit. As does the OP’er’s company. Which means this guy can put the poster up, and the OP’er’s boss can take it down. And they can fight it out between them, without putting the HR duck in the middle of it. Oh, jeez, you know what I mean. I don’t mean “right” as in a legal right, but I mean “right” in the colloquial. To restate: Christian Jerk Boss is being 100% unethical by posting crap in the common area that might offend the customers of the other company. The Decent Company should look into getting away from Jerk Co. as soon as possible. Never do business with religious fanatics. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/64 "2004-02-12T00:19:50Z")
> [@Winterwren](#): > > Isn’t there something in the Old Testament about praying in secret, not proclaiming it to the heavens? No, but there is matthew 6: 5-8; > [@](#): > > 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/65 "2004-02-12T01:03:27Z")
> [@Winterwren](#): > > So the blog spam hit you, too. I got it Monday morning; I think it’s set to hit people who post at certain times of day. And I hope they rot in the hell of their nightmares for it. > > Isn’t there something in the Old Testament about praying in secret, not proclaiming it to the heavens? I got it Friday afternoon. My Computer Guru BF is currently having it out with the (Italian) company that all the links go back to because I deleted my spam and the ISP addresses with it. Otherwise we’d be hitting up the (most likely Italian) ISP with information that someone is using their stuff to spam. Oh well. At least it reminded me to turn off anonymous commenting. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/66 "2004-02-12T09:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Because when people invoke the name of Jesus reverently, in many cases it’s not long before they attempt to get you to invoke the name of Jesus reverently, or start telling you unasked why the name of Jesus should be involed reverently or some other garbage like that. Yeah, but what are you, Jello? It takes two to hold a conversation. When I don’t like the way a conversation is headed, it ends. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/67 "2004-02-12T15:22:06Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > …BIANARYDRONE – > > Considering the breadth of beliefs and practices sheltered under the title of “Christianity,” it is a sign of stupidity or ignorance (or both) to believe that there is some monolithic entity known as "Christianity, and to further believe that that non-existent monolith is necessarily “an active force of harm and misery in this world.” But hey, believe what you want. Lord knows I do. I don’t think that I was trying to argue that there is some monolithic entity of Christianity out there, but sorry if my earlier post was unclear. I realize that there are many different flavors of Christianity, moreover I am not blind to the fact that a lot of them try to do good in the world. What I am saying is that when I look at the overall picture of what folks that call themselves Christian have done to this world, I see much more harm than good. Again, this is not to say that I am blind to the fact that there are many open and affirming congregations out there that are doing good works, but for the most part it seems to me that the title “Christian” has been hijacked and that more bad than good is associated with that title. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/68 "2004-02-12T15:31:57Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Yeah, but what are you, Jello? It takes two to hold a conversation. When I don’t like the way a conversation is headed, it ends. In many situations, you would have a point. In the nuances of this example, however, you do not. It is one thing to be able to walk away from a conversation that you find distasteful. I have been known to do this myself on occasion. However, in the example of blatantly religious “speech” (in the sense that if there were a policy forbidding it, there would be a first amendment free-speech law suit filed so fast that your head would spin) such as this poster, this avoidance is not possible. What do the folks that find this offensive do, stay home until the movie goes to video? Look, it is not that difficult. Let us assume that an HR director sends out a company wide email that states that there have been instances where people have been invoking the name of Jesus in vain and that this is considered offensive by some, so could we all please refrain.I can’t see that there would be this level of controversy. I know that personally I would be glad to modify my speech pattern in order to add to the comfort of those around me. Perhaps in the end, what this all can boil down to is the unwillingness of poster boy to simply be polite and to contemplate that there are views other than his own. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/69 "2004-02-12T15:38:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Considering the breadth of beliefs and practices sheltered under the title of “Christianity,” it is a sign of stupidity or ignorance (or both) to believe that there is some monolithic entity known as "Christianity, and to further believe that that non-existent monolith is necessarily “an active force of harm and misery in this world.” But hey, believe what you want. Lord knows I do. No, there is no monolithic entity known as “Christianity,” but seeing the unanimity of Catholics and Protestants in Massachussetts in noisily agitating against equality for gay people leads me to believe that the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians are an active force of harm and misery in this world.You may not wish to acknowledge this, but the sad fact is that any progressive cause, from gay rights to science education in schools, can count on opposition from Christians. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/70 "2004-02-12T15:51:12Z")
I think it boils down to the fact that there should be no proselytizing in the workplace. Its rude and offensive. If he were sponsoring the film because he thought it was of benefit to the general public in terms of historical or artistic merit, then I wouldn’t have a problem at all with the poster being up there. His response, however clued us in to the fact that he is endeavoring to force his faith on the rest of the company, via this poster. Generally speaking, people don’t put up “Passion” or “Left Behind” movie posters without ulterior motives. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/71 "2004-02-12T16:33:28Z")
> [@ouisey](#): > > …If he were sponsoring the film because he thought it was of benefit to the general public in terms of historical or artistic merit, then I wouldn’t have a problem at all with the poster being up there… I might even be inclined to disagree with you here. The point of a place of work is to, well, work. I am more than willing to see all of this sort of thing go away, if it can mean that it will keep Jesus out of my face. Remember that one persons cultural or artistic merit can be another’s proselytizing. I would just as soon see all places of employment be kept professional. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/72 "2004-02-12T16:52:14Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > No, but there is matthew 6: 5-8; True enough. There is also [Matthew 10:27](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+10:27&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) - > [@](#): > > What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. and [Matthew 5:16](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+5:16&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) > [@](#): > > In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. The apparent contradiction between the passages is usually resolved by pointing to the One who is supposed to receive the praise. In Matthew 6:5-8, the person is being ostentatiously religious to garner praise for himself. In the Matthew 5:16 passage, people see what is done in God’s name and give glory to His name. Jesus by no means forbids public witness; in fact, it is practically obligatory. You just can’t do it to show off how good you are. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/73 "2004-02-12T16:56:16Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Yeah, I do. And I find the idea obnoxious, preachy, stupid, self-important, and arrogant. Has it ever occured to you that those are not objective standards? That someone else might think cursing is obnoxious and praise is interesting? Do you hate just 'cause hating’s fun? Or what? I’d just like to point out that I work for a pretty generic corporation and that I would never say “Jesus Fucking Christ, that sucks.” or “Christ on a Cracker, what is that?!” or even “Sweet Jesus, that papercut hurt.” while at work. Why? Because it’s offensive to Christians and I both understand and respect that. Similarly, I would be mortified if I walked into the office to find a crucifix, a poster of The Passion, a pentacle, or a Freddy Vs. Jason poster on the wall. Why would you want to intentionally create an awkward and uncomfortable working environment? It doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/74 "2004-02-12T17:04:21Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > …Why would you want to intentionally create an awkward and uncomfortable working environment? It doesn’t make any sense. Oh, that one is easy. See on the one hand, you have the nasty bad unbeliever that is intent on oppressing the poor besieged Christian. That is a bad thing. On the other hand, you have the pious and loving Lamb of God, his heart filled with compassion for the state of your soul. Naturally, the unbeliever should just shut up and keep his opinions to himself, where as the Christian should be free to do or say anything he wants, because naturally he only cares about you and the state of your precious immortal soul. Try to get some perspective, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/75 "2004-02-12T17:15:13Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Oh, that one is easy. See on the one hand, you have the nasty bad unbeliever that is intent on oppressing the poor besieged Christian. That is a bad thing. On the other hand, you have the pious and loving Lamb of God, his heart filled with compassion for the state of your soul. Naturally, the unbeliever should just shut up and keep his opinions to himself, where as the Christian should be free to do or say anything he wants, because naturally he only cares about you and the state of your precious immortal soul. Try to get some perspective, buddy. Ohhh, right right. Silly me. :smack: I refuse to believe that all Chrisitian’s are this offensive, so I won’t blame it on him being a believer. Honestly, I think that some people are just beligerant. Good call, though. It does honestly sound like that is his train of thought. Very sad. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/76 "2004-02-12T17:38:55Z")
Am I missing something here? Fundamentalist Protestants are promoting a movie by a traditional Catholic? The fundamentalist Protestants whose craziest fellows believe that Catholics are the spawn of Satan? And a strain of traditional Catholics who believe that Protestants are heretics and who may secretly long for the good ol’ days when they could burn heretics? Sorry, but something is not clicking. It’s kinda like Sinn Fein supporting a movie made by the Ulster Defense Association and it has my worldview in a tizzy. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/77 "2004-02-12T18:12:00Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Oy. What exactly do you think might happen to you if someone loves Jesus? Or Buddha? Or Mohammed? I’ve resigned myself by now to the fact that the hand-stabbers will go into hysterics over the slightest hint of anything religious, but I do not yet understand why. Why the Slim Wittman effect? You don’t mind invoking the name of Jesus whenever you want to turn a colorful swearing phrase. In fact, you applaud one another and wallow in it. “Jesus on a cracker!” “Oh, band name!” […giggles…] So, why do you mind so terribly when someone invokes His name reverently? My thoughts too. Live and let live, to each his own, etc. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/78 "2004-02-12T18:12:15Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I might even be inclined to disagree with you here. The point of a place of work is to, well, work. I am more than willing to see all of this sort of thing go away, if it can mean that it will keep Jesus out of my face. > > Remember that one persons cultural or artistic merit can be another’s proselytizing. I would just as soon see all places of employment be kept professional. I was thinking of one particular case where my company put up a movie poster, and no one had a problem with it. My company bought us all tickets to see “The Grinch” together. So there were some movie posters, with some times to go see the film, if we liked. I mean, you could say that “The Grinch” was about Christmas, and was therefore promoting one religion over another. But no one minded, because the film wasn’t meant to convert you to Christianity. It was just a fun film. Actually it was crap. What I’m trying to get at, is that the intent behind the poster is what really matters. If the guy hung up the “Passion” poster as a striking example of modern marketing, blah blah blah, for instance, I can’t imagine anyone having a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/79 "2004-02-12T18:14:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Am I missing something here? Fundamentalist Protestants are promoting a movie by a traditional Catholic? The fundamentalist Protestants whose craziest fellows believe that Catholics are the spawn of Satan? And a strain of traditional Catholics who believe that Protestants are heretics and who may secretly long for the good ol’ days when they could burn heretics? > > Sorry, but something is not clicking. It’s kinda like Sinn Fein supporting a movie made by the Ulster Defense Association and it has my worldview in a tizzy. Dude, it seems you’re too busy categorizing people to really understand. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317/80 "2004-02-12T20:42:24Z")
What gets me about this whole thing is the way the guy went about it. Seems like (unless I read the OP wrong) he came in early (or stayed late) and hung the poster up when no one else was there to see him or object to what he was doing. I mean **ThatDuckisEvil** came in one morning and it was just there. Doesn’t that imply that the owner of the sister company knew on some level that there would be objections? Doesn’t common courtesy dictate that if you’re going to redecorate a shared reception area or adorn it with any kind of plant, poster, decoration, you’d check it out with the people who shared the space before you did it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-at-work-help-me-explain-this-no-no/228317.md?page=5)