# Religion gets itself into trouble when it tries to be logical **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2026, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028 "2026-01-26T02:32:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/41 "2026-01-28T17:55:04Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > That binary thinking of “it’s either completely true, or it’s completely worthless” is IMO a great example of religion getting itself in trouble by trying to be logical. It’s also kind of a Western thing, I think. I’m no expert on Buddhism, but as a practicing Zen Buddhist I suspect there’s a fair amount of bullshit in there if you look deeply. But Zen is mostly meditation and attention to the present moment, activities which have been clearly established to have positive benefits for many people (not all people.) And I don’t need to believe in the absolute infallibility of Buddhism in order to practice Zen, however the more I practice Zen the more I feel I’m starting to understand Zen concepts and ideas that once seemed impenetrable. Understanding is often gained through experience. But my understanding isn’t a universal understanding, it’s just my own personal journey, and Zen masters throughout the centuries have made it pretty clear that their direction is just one means to reaching understanding but that ultimately it’s something we have to figure out for ourselves. As Dogen said, “Put no head above your own.” (Which means many things, but I’m taking it at face value to begin with.) To the extent that Zen is not logical, I don’t care. I’m not doing it to be logical, I’m doing it because it works for me. But in Buddhism you don’t usually have this idea of evangelism that permeates many sects of Christianity, so there is less pressure to try to force it to make sense. I don’t feel the need to convince anyone about Buddhism. I don’t need to try to build an airtight case. And in Buddhism there is less cultural impetus to square everything away. Zen at times seems to revel in contradiction. I’ve never been bothered by contradiction in religion or philosophy. A lot of cultures aren’t. And it’s important to keep that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/42 "2026-01-28T18:03:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Statements like “Religion gets itself into trouble when it tries to be logical” are too general to be useful. Replace “religion” with “government” or “sports” or “art” for comparison. Typical the author has in their mind some particular instance and it would be better to discuss that Art, maybe. Sports, probably not. And government, certainly not. Government not being logical causes big problems, as we see all the time. Charity might not depend on evidence, but it certainly does not go against evidence and logic, since I think you can make a good argument that charity improves the world in general, whatever its motivation. I can imagine a religion that is logical and works on evidence. None of ours do, however. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/43 "2026-01-28T18:10:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I can imagine a religion that is logical and works on evidence. None of ours do, however. I think if it’s logical and evidence-based, you call it a “philosophy” rather than a religion. There can be a lot of overlap between the two, but they don’t address the same emotional needs. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/44 "2026-01-28T18:27:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I think if it’s logical and evidence-based, you call it a “philosophy” rather than a religion. There can be a lot of overlap between the two, but they don’t address the same emotional needs. I was thinking of a religion whose tenets were evidence based and logical. Abraham’s belief in god was utterly logical, after all he talked to the guy. A lot of the emotional needs religion addresses involve answers to questions we don’t have logical answers to. And absolute answers. The answers from philosophy are tentative. The answers from science are “we don’t know” untl the evidence comes in. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/45 "2026-01-28T18:57:31Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > In order to have a moral conflict between your own beliefs and what “God says”, you have to believe you actually _know_ what God says. No, you have to know what _you_ believe, and whether it conflicts with what you have been told the god you follow believes. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/46 "2026-01-28T19:44:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Government not being logical causes big problems, as we see all the time. My point is that something like government, etc, is not a simple thing that can be talked about in general. > [@Voyager](#): > > Charity might not depend on evidence, but it certainly does not go against evidence and logic, since I think you can make a good argument that charity improves the world in general, whatever its motivation. Exactly. Just as one can’t say “religion is good” because some religious people do good things like charity, one also can’t say “religion is bad” because some religious people do bad things. Details and specifics matter. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/47 "2026-01-28T22:58:13Z")
Well said. ISTM the root of religious evil is people foolishly _needing_ absolute answers to questions that are inherently “it depends”. Someone will always volunteer to be some god’s spokesperson and deliver that absolute answer. And that’s where the ge victims of religion allow, nay demand, they be bamboozled. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/48 "2026-01-28T23:00:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > ISTM the root of religious evil is people foolishly _needing_ absolute answers to questions that are inherently “it depends”. And, maybe more pointedly, people wanting justification for behaving badly and hurting others. “My religion/my deity/my faith say ‘this is OK!’” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/49 "2026-01-29T00:17:06Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I think if it’s logical and evidence-based, you call it a “philosophy” rather than a religion. Yes. People seldom call something a religious belief _unless_ it’s illogical, destructive or contradicts reality, and need to use “faith” or “it’s religious” as a shield for their unjustifiable position. Often because they also want to force it on other people. If it’s based on facts or logic, or they are willing to say something like “I just like it”/“it’s just my opinion”, they they aren’t likely to sticking the religion label on it. Because then it doesn’t need to use our self-destructive attitude towards religion as a shield. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2026, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/50 "2026-02-04T23:15:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If you admit you are not a Scotsman while living in, say, Spain, then you _aren’t_ a Scotsman. Unless, you ARE a Scotsman (Truly) who lives in Spain. Therefore, Jesus exists. Aha! Gotcha! Counter _that_ logic, my heathen friend! > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Christian philbros What are those? > [@Askance](#): > > Quite aside from the utter absurdity of all religions’ beliefs is the rigidity, is the **uninterest** - indeed hostility - in any advance in factual understanding. (Bolding mine) Thank you so much for not incorrectly using the word “disinterest” here. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/51 "2026-02-05T14:11:26Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > What are those? Dan McClellan antiparticles, basically. Channels like InspiringPhilosophy and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2026, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/52 "2026-02-06T15:42:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Dan McClellan antiparticles, basically. Channels like InspiringPhilosophy and the like. Nah, antiparticles mutually annihilate, it’s much more one-sided in McClellan’s case. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/53 "2026-02-06T17:18:05Z")
True, true. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/54 "2026-02-07T15:00:51Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I prefer Neil deGrasse Tyson’s thoughts on death and afterlife: your body’s energy returns to the ecosystem (late response) - I am a full body donor, so I hope my bits and pieces contribute to the ecosystem when I die. My liver may not make the cut, but I have a heart, lungs, kidneys and a large amount of skin. The rest can go to compost, although I have asked our premier student medical training hospital to take my body as a training tool for dissection. So I will likely end my time on earth in various parts, and the rest being incinerated in a medical waste furnace. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Nerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed655f/32.png) [@Ancient\_Nerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Nerd)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/55 "2026-02-07T19:05:40Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > So I will likely end my time on earth in various parts, and the rest being incinerated in a medical waste furnace. My mother says that funerals are actually for the living. Do you want to let the people who will miss you have a chance to say goodbye? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2026, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/56 "2026-02-08T14:05:12Z")
The ashes are returned to the family after a body is dissected by medical students. If you want a physical symbol to “say goodbye”, you still have one. Both my parents were cremated. We held a funeral (technically a memorial service) and then much later we scattered their ashes. My mother’s covid-era remote service lacked a lot of the emotional support of opening your home to all your friends and family (which is what Jews traditionally do when they mourn) but that was because of covid, not because we lacked the body. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2026, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/57 "2026-02-08T16:56:53Z")
> [@Ancient\_Nerd](#): > > My mother says that funerals are actually for the living. Do you want to let the people who will miss you have a chance to say goodbye? “No body” does not _have_ to also mean “there is no funeral / memorial service / celebration of life” for the surviving family and friends. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2026, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/58 "2026-02-09T09:44:25Z")
> [@Ancient\_Nerd](#): > > Do you want to let the people who will miss you have a chance to say goodbye? If they want to hold a boozy party/wake, that’s OK. I am atheist, so no funeral. I won’t be there, but as I am a organ donor some bits of me might live on. I just need to die somewhere really close to a hospital. The rest goes to students at a local university school of medicine for disection I think those things are more valuable than goodbyes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2026, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/59 "2026-02-09T10:45:14Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “No body” does not _have_ to also mean “there is no funeral / memorial service / celebration of life” for the surviving family and friends. This. People have always had to deal with situations where for one reason or another a person’s body was irrecoverable, lost or destroyed. They held ceremonies anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2026, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028/60 "2026-02-10T16:54:19Z")
Religion looks for reason when belief isn’t enough. And man, if belief isn’t enough they should start over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-gets-itself-into-trouble-when-it-tries-to-be-logical/1027028.md?page=4)