# Religion is the cause of all wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2002, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291 "2002-04-01T23:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/21 "2002-04-02T00:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > \*\*So does religious intolerance. \*\* So does secular intolerance. Any intolerance, reguardless whether it’s religious or not causes conflict. I ask again “Hows your tolerance towards others?” ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/22 "2002-04-02T00:42:58Z")
Hey, **Knight** , I’m all for brevity, but it’s okay to have more than two sentences in a post occasionally. Here’s [a similar thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=92305&highlight=crusades) for your perusal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/23 "2002-04-02T00:51:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > > Seven of these conflicts have a religious dimension, and arguably for some, the religious dimension is pretty tangential - ethnicity is the motivating factor: > > Israel/Lebanon > Sri Lanka > Sudan > Philippines > India > Indonesia > Yugoslavia > Egypt. > > So, perhaps your thesis should have been “Religion is the cause of 1/3 of wars. 1/3 of religions should be abolished.” But I count 8 not 7 . 87.5 % of these conflicts involve Islamic participants. Since Islam is actually a religion of peace, then these can not be classified as religious conflicts except Ceylon. Now we are down to 1 of 25 or 4% of armed coflicts are religion based. I think that pretty well refutes the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/24 "2002-04-02T00:54:11Z")
Well, if religion is indeed the cause of _all_ wars, then certainly a few wars in American history would have to be re-explained to me, at least in terms of religion being a _direct_ cause. The Revolutionary War The War of 1812 The Mexican War The Civil War The Spanish-American War World War I World War II The Korean War The Vietnam War The Gulf War The problem with making such an incredibly broad statement like “religion is the cause of all wars” is that it’s so easy to find at least one exception. And here it looks like I’ve found a bundle of exceptions, and I didn’t even have to go beyond my own country’s history. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/25 "2002-04-02T01:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\* But I count 8 not 7 . 87.5 % of these conflicts involve Islamic participants. Since Islam is actually a religion of peace, then these can not be classified as religious conflicts except Ceylon. > > Now we are down to 1 of 25 or 4% of armed coflicts are religion based. I think that pretty well refutes the OP. \*\* If you are claiming that religion (Islam) is causing all of these conflicts, you would be wrong. As religion doesn’t fuel conflict intolerance towards religion and others cause war. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/26 "2002-04-02T01:01:25Z")
Even if you add the Troubles, it still does not support that the primary cause of human warfare is religion. 100 Years War (1300s-1400s England-France) – land grab 1848 US-Mexican War – land grab[1] US Civil War - political Spanish-American War – land grab[1] Russo-Finnish War – land grab 1930’s Chaco War (Paraguay-Bolivia) – land grab Korean War – ideological/land grab Vietnam War – ideological Honduras-El Salvador war – border dispute + soccer:rolleyes: 1980s Iran-Iraq War (both are majority Shi’ite) – border dispute/regional power play Falklands war – land grab/political [2] [1] Unless we argue that Manifest Destiny is primarily a Protestant anti-Catholic doctrine [2] Unless we consider the very existence of a British Empire a doctrinal result of the Reformation, and the existence of Argentina a doctrinal result of the 1500s Papal demarcation of the New World. “Religion is the cause of _all_ wars, (ergo) Religion should be abolished” is refuted by evidence. A majority of wars _even “holy” wars_ are straight land grabs or political power plays. Rephrased as “_Religious politics_ is the cause of the worst, bloodiest, most violent, longest-running wars,” with the Crusades, the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Troubles as examples, then we may have something. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/27 "2002-04-02T01:36:29Z")
Question: If the Palestinians and Jews were in the same situation, only the populations were defined by skin color or any other distinguishing characteristic, would they be living peacefully and happily? The root cause of the conflict is that the Palestinians feel like they got the short end of the stick in a U.N. partition plan, and rather than form a nation as Israel did at the time and try to coexist peacefully, they decided on a ruinous plan to camp out, fight back, and eventually win the whole terroritory back. Religion only plays a part in that it’s the traditional dividing line between disparate populations. The REAL cause of the Arab/Israeli wars is Tribalism and power struggles, not religion. How about this: Scapegoating on a religious basis is evil, and should be abolished. Intolerance of religous choices should be abolished. That means Noxious Knight should be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/28 "2002-04-02T14:10:54Z")
Worst…OP…ever. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/29 "2002-04-02T14:18:11Z")
Economics and power are the root causes of all wars. Religion is just a handy tool to get the rank and file fired up. If there were no religion, other excuses would be found: race, trumped-up cartographic disputes, stars on the bellies, etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/30 "2002-04-02T14:24:04Z")
Oh yeah, and The Troubles in Northern Ireland aren’t really about religion. They are about colonialism. Religion is just a handy way to separate the descendants of the original inhabitants (Irish Catholics) from the descendants of the colonizers (British Protestants). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/31 "2002-04-02T14:46:31Z")
Hmmm, this is the first time I’ve ever seen a troll post from someone with a count in the hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/32 "2002-04-02T15:14:58Z")
As long as this thread is clearly going nowhere, I suggest we take Godwin’s Law out for a little fresh air. Perhaps we could round up all the religious people and put them in camps, or just forcibly sterilise them. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/33 "2002-04-02T15:28:15Z")
1. Medic wars 2. Punic Wars 3. 1 world war 4. 2 world war 5. Vietnam war 6. Korea War 7. Spanish Succession war 8. Most of the colonial wars 9. all of the americans revolutions 10. U.S.A vs spain war 11. Napoleonic Wars 12. Cold War 13. Many (but not all) of the civil wars. 14. Boers War If I am not wrong religion played no part in this conflicts ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/34 "2002-04-02T15:35:21Z")
What the hell is godwin’s law? Thanks in advance for explaining. The explanation would surely be a Highjack or at least it would be if this where an inteligent thread ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/35 "2002-04-02T15:43:24Z")
Godwins’ law is that as the number of posts in a debate increses, the probability of one party comparing the other to the Nazis approaches 1. Some people wrongly interpret this to mean ‘as soon as someone mentions Nazis, the debate is over(or lost)’, but that’s putting Descartes before the horse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/36 "2002-04-02T15:44:19Z")
“What the hell is godwin’s law?” Essentially, it’s the “rule” that a discussion has gone too far afield or has become too bitter when Hitler or the Nazis are mentioned in a manner not directly relevant to the discussion. Mentioning Hitler in a WWII thread would not involve Godwin’s Law, while mentioning Hitler in a debate over the designated hitter rule would. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/37 "2002-04-02T16:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Bredin \* > **…mentioning Hitler in a debate over the designated hitter rule would.** Hitler might have thrown a decent fastball, but he tired in later innings… ---
**Author:** ![DrunkenGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@DrunkenGamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrunkenGamer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/38 "2002-04-02T16:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by efrem \* > \*\*No, it is a person’s intolerance which governs how they view the religion of others. > \*\* I don’t think that only an individual’s peronsal intolerance comes into play. If you are a member of one religion, aren’t all (or most at least) other religions wrong? For example, look at Judaism and Christianity. Either Christ is God’s son and was resurrected and is coming back (Christianity), or he isn’t (Judaism). One or the other; you can’t have it both ways. If you’re a Jew, you have to believe that the Christians are wrong. And vice-versa. Although, as I’m writing this, I realize that this doesn’t mean “intolerance.” I am not suggesting that because you think a religion is wrong, you automatically want to kill everyone who believes in it. I guess there is a factor of both religion and personality in a holy war… ---
**Author:** ![emmy66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85f322/32.png) [@emmy66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmy66)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/39 "2002-04-02T17:21:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Hmmm, this is the first time I’ve ever seen a troll post from someone with a count in the hundreds. \*\* It isn’t that hard when all one does is post one-liners minutes after one another such as: “I meant this…” “BTW, I also meant this…” “But that’s beside the point.” “I heard that before.” ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291/40 "2002-04-02T17:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrunkenGamer \* > \*\* > > I don’t think that only an individual’s peronsal intolerance comes into play. If you are a member of one religion, aren’t all (or most at least) other religions wrong? > > For example, look at Judaism and Christianity. Either Christ is God’s son and was resurrected and is coming back (Christianity), or he isn’t (Judaism). One or the other; you can’t have it both ways. If you’re a Jew, you have to believe that the Christians are wrong. And vice-versa. > > Although, as I’m writing this, I realize that this doesn’t mean “intolerance.” I am not suggesting that because you think a religion is wrong, you automatically want to kill everyone who believes in it. I guess there is a factor of both religion and personality in a holy war… \*\* You can come to your own conclusions about to religion and still be tolerance towards who don’t share the same view as you. If you made the choice to believe Jesus is God’s son, okay. If you don’t, okay again. Tolerance comes in to play when you respect the choices that others have made, even if it isn’t the same as yours. What causes war is intolerance. Intolerance people can use any tool for conflict whether it be religion, ethnicity, class, or gender. You could say that divercity divides but who will cause fights: Diverse tolerant people or diverse intolerant people. Intolerance towards others causes conflicts [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-cause-of-all-wars/101291.md?page=3)