# Religion is the main cause of war and the root of most suffering in the world | Refuted **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180 "2016-04-14T13:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChemChaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@ChemChaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChemChaos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/1 "2016-04-14T13:12:03Z")
I found this post on Reddit, it comes from the subreddit bad history. [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/4ec4jy/religion_is_the_main_cause_of_war_and_the_root_of/) It’s a great debunking of the atheist myth that “religion is the cause of war and root of all conflict and suffering in the world” that some atheists spew out on a daily basis as their reason for opposing religion. The post goes on to use statistics and sources to debunk these two claims, showing that most wars in history were secular and most suffering is down to secular reasons or nature rather than religion. . . . [Ed.: rest of screed at link provided.] ---
**Author:** ![ChemChaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@ChemChaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChemChaos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/2 "2016-04-14T13:13:15Z")
[Ed.: Continuation of screed linked in previous post.] ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/3 "2016-04-14T13:19:30Z")
If ever there was a TL;DR, this is it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/4 "2016-04-14T13:54:04Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > If ever there was a TL;DR, this is it. I just skimmed your post, but I’m gonna agree. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/5 "2016-04-14T14:03:28Z")
> [@ChemChaos](#): > > It’s a great debunking of the atheist myth that “religion is the cause of war and root of all conflict and suffering in the world” that some atheists spew out on a daily basis as their reason for opposing religion. I’m not exactly aware of anyone worth taking seriously who touts this claim. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/6 "2016-04-14T14:06:34Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > If ever there was a TL;DR, this is it. I think The Bible is actually shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/7 "2016-04-14T14:12:04Z")
Well, golly-Now that I can no longer post my daily “Religion is the cause of ALL WARS!!!” screed, all I’ve got left to fall back on is “God? _What_ God?” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/8 "2016-04-14T14:14:56Z")
But can a lion defeat a tiger? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/9 "2016-04-14T14:21:40Z")
What’s the over-under on a cut and paste job? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/10 "2016-04-14T14:22:09Z")
Not really a mainstream atheist myth, and which atheists of note are saying it regularly? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/11 "2016-04-14T14:27:08Z")
So what we have here is a cut and paste rebuttal of a claim nobody here ever made, by a drive-by whack-job with an agenda. Must be Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/12 "2016-04-14T14:29:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > But can a lion defeat a tiger? Batman or Superman? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/13 "2016-04-14T14:38:23Z")
All wars come down to “They are not us, and have something we want.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/14 "2016-04-14T14:44:19Z")
All religious wars come down to “The gods get the glory, the mortals get the shame.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/15 "2016-04-14T14:45:45Z")
Like the rest, I just skimmed the wall-o-text above, but for the sake of debate, I will agree–partially–with the OP. Religion \*\*\*is not \*\*\*the main cause of war. Social, economic, political reasons normally are. I would argue that religion _ **has been used and has used** _ war to advance it’s own agenda (and the agenda of others) in almost every conflict, and religion has allowed itselft to be used as a rallying point and recruitment tool for the “right” side in almost any conflict you care to name. People may not fight and suffer for some Prince who wants to rule a neighboring dukedom, but for "protecting the faith’ and ‘advancing moral laws as called upon by (name your God/Prophet here)’, it’s a great rallying point. And that religion (all of them, possibly excepting Quakers and the like) has let itself be used in this manner is perhaps the greatest “sin” of all. IMHO of course. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/16 "2016-04-14T14:48:14Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > All wars come down to “They are not us, and have something we want.” Or, as the author Eric Flint put it rather pointedly in one of his Ring of Fire books: “Those M\*\*_ **F** _ers dissed us, so we’re going over there to get them.” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/17 "2016-04-14T14:48:16Z")
Ironically, I’ve heard this claim more from my fellow Atheists: “Religion is just an excuse. Take religion out of the equation and people are still going to find an excuse to kill each other anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/18 "2016-04-14T14:49:02Z")
As is my usual annoying wont, I actually started to go through this with a claim-by-claim examination, and even \*I \*got bored. Suffice it to say there’s a lack of references where they’d be helpful and a bit of a blurring of terms, and a hell of a lot of well-poisoning, but there do seem to be some interesting thoughts in there. I’d be very interested in discussing points of this rather than have a whole article dumped on me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/19 "2016-04-14T14:57:04Z")
Okay, I took a bullet for the team and actually read through the first two posts in the thread. I’m going to summarize them: 1. Atheists claim religion is the main cause of war and the root of most suffering in the world. The OP says this is not true. 2. The Crusades, which are generally seen as a religious war, were actually conducted for secular political reasons against the rising power of the Seljuk Turks. 3. The number of people killed in the Spanish Inquisition is lower than most realize. 4. Most wars have been conducted for secular political reasons not religious reasons. 5. Many of the world’s worst political atrocities were conducted by communist regimes which openly opposed religion. 6. Most individual crimes like murder, rape, and suicide have no religious motive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180/20 "2016-04-14T14:59:51Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Ironically, I’ve heard this claim more from my fellow Atheists: “Religion is just an excuse. Take religion out of the equation and people are still going to find an excuse to kill each other anyway.” The problem is that, if you can convince the poor and/or ignorant that great wealth and eternal happiness can be had if you fight for the right god(s), if makes for one _hell_ of an excuse…especially if a threat of eternal damnation is thrown in for good measure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-main-cause-of-war-and-the-root-of-most-suffering-in-the-world-refuted/752180.md?page=2)