# Religion is the single most dangerous thing ever conceived by man. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074 "2005-02-20T23:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/41 "2005-02-21T05:55:16Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I’ve addressed this issue many times before. > > Here’s a tip. Please obtain a copy of _The Guiness Book of World Records_. Next, look up “Mass Murderers.” Would you care to guess who are at the top of those lists? (Hint: Not a single one of those people were religious.) “Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/42 "2005-02-21T11:57:10Z")
You’re dodging the issue. Please tell me who the greatest mass murderers of history are. Then tell me which of them, if any, were religious in nature. The fact that Hitler _claimed_ that religious belief was necessary in his actions proves nothing. Empirical evidence is what matters. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/43 "2005-02-21T12:03:16Z")
I’d disagree: Property-based coalitions (_ie._ “us and **ours** ,and them and **theirs** ”) are the most dangerous things conceived by man. Religion, race, nationalism, politics - all of these are just arbitrary ways to distinguish “us and ours” from “them and theirs”. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/44 "2005-02-21T12:08:22Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > I’d disagree: Property-based coalitions (_ie._ “us and **ours** ,and them and **theirs** ”) are the most dangerous things conceived by man. > > Religion, race, nationalism, politics - all of these are just arbitrary ways to distinguish “us and ours” from “them and theirs”. **Senters** , don’t animals display property-based coalition behaviour? Is it not an adaptive thing? Biological, as well as cultural. Even genetic. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/45 "2005-02-21T12:15:55Z")
You’re quite right, **roger** : I should have specified _large scale_ property-based coalitions, which one could hardly describe as a mechanism which is “adaptive to the environment” given that it _destroys_ (or at least, drastically affects) that environment in a manner which animal or even human tribal coalitions avoid, thus retaining some measure of equilibrium which large-scale conflict can overturn in a trice. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/46 "2005-02-21T12:23:35Z")
F\*ck me - it’s taken six months but **SM** agrees with me about something! To kill two birds with one stone - if that’s allowed, survival of the fittest and all that - may I just say that I disagree completely with this statement and also disagree totally with **Sentie** ’s latest political spectrum thingie. Religion is not harmful in and of itself - it’s the practitioners that one needs to watch. Institutional safeguards are needed here as in all other areas. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/47 "2005-02-21T12:26:10Z")
The Crusades question was answered for me. It was a war over real estate. Daniel Quinn has argued that the most dangerous thing every conceived man is agriculture. He actually makes a pretty good case. Then there’s the Jenny Holzer slogan, “Private Property Created Crime,” which works as well as any in declaring the most dangerous idea ever conceived by man. Given the abstract simplicity of such statements and the complexity of actual events, it is possible to argue many such notions, but one can always counter by saying that evil wasn’t really about this, it was really about that. Follow up question: what is the most dangerous thing ever conceived by woman? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/48 "2005-02-21T13:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that Hitler _claimed_ that religious belief was necessary in his actions proves nothing. Empirical evidence is what matters. Oh, very nice. Why bother answering the issue, if he comes up with an example, all you have to do is say “Oh, well just because (insert name) _claims_ to be religious doesn’t mean anything.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/49 "2005-02-21T13:23:51Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Oh, very nice. Why bother answering the issue, if he comes up with an example, all you have to do is say “Oh, well just because (insert name) _claims_ to be religious doesn’t mean anything.” :rolleyes: It is brutally unfair for anyone to point out the weaknesses and flaws in specious arguments, and it would be worse if such weak and specious arguments were to continue to be exposed for their weaknesses and flaws rather than become persuasive by mere repitition. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/50 "2005-02-21T14:29:56Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Oh, very nice. Why bother answering the issue, if he comes up with an example, all you have to do is say “Oh, well just because (insert name) _claims_ to be religious doesn’t mean anything.” :rolleyes: You miss the point. There’s a huge difference between opinion and evidence. Hitler supposedly _believed_ that spiritual belief was necessary to support his views. (I say “supposedly” because his own religious beliefs – or lack thereof – are a matter of dispute.) Even if his statement was sincere, it was still mere opinion. So again, I ask you… Who were the greatest mass murderers in history, and how many of them (if any) were religious? Moreover, Hitler’s view (even if sincere) doesn’t actually address the issue at hand. At best, it would imply that spirituality is necessary for oppression. It would say nothing about whether religiosity is indeed the most dangerous thing conceived by man. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/51 "2005-02-21T15:40:54Z")
Put me down as agree with the thread’s title, my man. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/52 "2005-02-21T15:46:00Z")
Your reasons being…? ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/53 "2005-02-21T15:51:19Z")
I have to agree further the assertions of **Brutus**. The pursuit of socialism has caused the most deaths, Mao 40Million Hitler 34M Stalin 20M in my opinion. I challenge you to submit the figures of those killed in the name of religion. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/54 "2005-02-21T16:25:24Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I have to agree further the assertions of **Brutus**. > > The pursuit of socialism has caused the most deaths, > > Mao 40Million > Hitler 34M > Stalin 20M > > in my opinion. I challenge you to submit the figures of those killed in the name of religion. Communism is not socialism, my man. The relationship between fascism and socialism is even more tenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/55 "2005-02-21T16:27:39Z")
And (as I mentioned earlier) body count isn’t necessarily the only way to quantify ‘dangerous’ (OK, it’s quite a good one). ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/56 "2005-02-21T16:28:44Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#): > > Communism is not socialism, my man. The relationship between fascism and socialism is even more tenuous. Ok let’s just call them secular political ideologies. Which would make political science the most dangerous thing ever conceived by man. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/57 "2005-02-21T16:32:39Z")
What about language/communication? Without language, how would orders to kill have been given? I don’t think it’s possible to take this thread very seriously; the OP might just as well have said “I really hate some forms of religion and I wish it would all just go away!” ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/58 "2005-02-21T16:33:15Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > And (as I mentioned earlier) body count isn’t necessarily the only way to quantify ‘dangerous’ (OK, it’s quite a good one). I’ll say it’s a good one. If you can name me _anything_ that’s remotely as good (objective and relevant) I’ll eat my keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/59 "2005-02-21T18:07:08Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > . (I say “supposedly” because his own religious beliefs – or lack thereof – are a matter of dispute.) A matter of dispute? By whom? Those that say Evolution is a matter of dispute? The very book he wrote and the speeches he gave does more than suggest his opinion on his own relgion: > [@](#): > > I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord… > [@](#): > > We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession… > [@](#): > > My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people… When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited. > -Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 12 April 1922 He seems to be a Christian, religious, and sure of his own beliefs to me. I fail to see how there could possibly be dispute at all. Except by those with fingers placed in ears. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074/60 "2005-02-21T18:55:16Z")
Yes, Agree. Deadly thing that. Religion. “When in comes to bull####…bigtime, major league bull####…you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims…religion.” George Carlin “The only force more devastating than a nuclear holocaust is a group of Christians fresh out of church.” Matt Polek [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-is-the-single-most-dangerous-thing-ever-conceived-by-man/291074.md?page=4)