# Religion was invented to control the masses (?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2013, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341 "2013-03-19T10:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/21 "2013-03-20T04:39:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If the idea is that Christianity was founded with the goal of controlling over a billion people, yeah, that’s a pretty bad tactic. On the other hand, if the idea is that Christianity was invented with the goal of controlling a couple of dozen people and keeping them enthralled to the will of a particular charismatic, then the situation you describe is ideal. That wouldn’t really count as “the masses”, though, would it? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/22 "2013-03-20T04:44:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Sure, it arises from fear, superstition, awe, love, hate, and all the such things that are the nature of life but have no simple explanations. But eventually ReligionMan comes along. Religion man knows all things about the world beyond our senses and tells everyone they have to do things his way or bad things will happen. And bad things do happen, and it’s because of transgressors, and you know the rest. > > Once you have the natural formation of religion within people, it’s not that hard to invent an organized religion and use it to control people. Take a look at Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, and Jim Jones. Those guys pulled it off in fairly modern times. But wouldn’t the same argument hold just as true for non-religious ethical systems? If you persuade people that we all ought to behave _this_ way, rather than _that_ way, then those who insist on behaving _that_ way are transgressors, and a threat, and must be dealt with. Hence kings, courts, law, punishment. What this comes down to is the assertion that _ethics_ was invented to control the masses, since any claim that we ought to behave in one way raises the question of how we deal with people who don’t behave that way. On this view, both religious and non-religious ethical systems would have the same tendency to engender authoritarian enforcement mechanisms. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/23 "2013-03-20T04:53:34Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > That wouldn’t really count as “the masses”, though, would it? Well, “a” mass, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/24 "2013-03-20T05:27:50Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > But wouldn’t the same argument hold just as true for non-religious ethical systems? If you persuade people that we all ought to behave _this_ way, rather than _that_ way, then those who insist on behaving _that_ way are transgressors, and a threat, and must be dealt with. Hence kings, courts, law, punishment. > > What this comes down to is the assertion that _ethics_ was invented to control the masses, since any claim that we ought to behave in one way raises the question of how we deal with people who don’t behave that way. On this view, both religious and non-religious ethical systems would have the same tendency to engender authoritarian enforcement mechanisms. Sure. There are plenty of ways to control people, but they all take advantage of human weaknesses. There isn’t any real difference between a code of ethics that blames the transgressors directly for society’s problems, and one that does it with a god as an intermediary. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/25 "2013-03-20T07:41:44Z")
Invented for that purpose, probably not. Used for that purpose, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/26 "2013-03-20T09:15:30Z")
I suspect that this is in part through a popular misunderstanding of Karl Marx’s famous phrase **religion is the opium of the masses**. I have heard people say that this means the working classes are kept quiet with religion as a means to pacify them to the injustices they endure at the hands of the rich; when in fact he meant that religion is created by the masses themselves to deal with the difficulties of daily life, and that when communism arises and the workers rule the roost, religion would die off of its own accord. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/27 "2013-03-20T10:28:08Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I suspect that this is in part through a popular misunderstanding of Karl Marx’s famous phrase **religion is the opium of the masses**. > > I have heard people say that this means the working classes are kept quiet with religion as a means to pacify them to the injustices they endure at the hands of the rich; when in fact he meant that religion is created by the masses themselves to deal with the difficulties of daily life, and that when communism arises and the workers rule the roost, religion would die off of its own accord. I suspect the OP’s _cliché_ is indeed a strawman based on that phrase. I have never heard the claim as the OP states it. It is a setup question where the answer then would be “AHA! So religion doesn’t oppress the people!” “Eat that you socialists!” Therefore, Bryan’s second part ,or something to that effect, should be included in answering this question. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Invented for that purpose, probably not. > > Used for that purpose, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/28 "2013-03-20T15:29:11Z")
I would think the hydraulic civilization of Egypt under the Pharoahs is a better example of religion being used or invented to control the masses. The priests, being able to tell the date, could predict when the Nile would flood and when to plant crops, and it was obviously the will of the gods that the peasants would be there to work the fields when that happened. Otherwise everyone would starve. So serve your masters and know your place. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/29 "2013-03-20T15:53:10Z")
Humans obeyed their parents (or chiefs); then, through superego (or even auditory hallucinations) obeyed their dead ancestors, or dead chiefs, or statues or other icons representing such honored dead authority figures; this developed into religions. To obey such authorities is to be “controlled.” Since chieftains and priests encouraged and exploited such religion, Yes: religion was “invented to control.” To add “the masses” is misleading since, at the time of the initial invention, only villages or bands would be controlled. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/30 "2013-03-20T16:38:03Z")
[Marx’ famous quote in full:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people) > [@](#): > > The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. > > Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. **Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.** > > The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. > > Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower.[1] Here he seems to be characterizing religion as a drug **the people cook up for themselves,** not one the ruling class peddles to them. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/31 "2013-03-20T17:41:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Marx’ famous quote in full:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people) > > Here he seems to be characterizing religion as a drug **the people cook up for themselves,** not one the ruling class peddles to them. Uhm, yeah the _opressed_ people. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/32 "2013-03-20T21:03:20Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I suspect that this is in part through a popular misunderstanding of Karl Marx’s famous phrase **religion is the opium of the masses**. > > I have heard people say that this means the working classes are kept quiet with religion as a means to pacify them to the injustices they endure at the hands of the rich; when in fact he meant that religion is created by the masses themselves to deal with the difficulties of daily life, and that when communism arises and the workers rule the roost, religion would die off of its own accord. Marx was just as much wrong about religion as he was about economics, sociology, and nearly everything else. If we look at the actual facts concerning the origins and practice of religion, we do not see that it was created by the oppressors to pacify the masses or that it is relegated strictly to the oppressed masses and created by themselves. There have certainly been examples of oppressed people who were highly religious. However, religious fervor is certainly not limited to oppressed people. Overall, some religions seem to thrive quite well among free people, most notably Christianity. Therefore Marx’s characterization of religion is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/33 "2013-03-20T23:03:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Spirituality seems pretty innate. Appearances can be deceiving. It is easy to believe that spirituality is built into our wiring but it is nearly impossible to prove or disprove, because clean samples are hard to come by, as well as unbiased researchers. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/34 "2013-03-21T15:17:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Sure. There are plenty of ways to control people, but they all take advantage of human weaknesses. There isn’t any real difference between a code of ethics that blames the transgressors directly for society’s problems, and one that does it with a god as an intermediary. Ah, but a god can be everywhere and anywhere, meaning he can ‘enforce’ the code even when you think nobody’s looking. Sure that’s less effective for the smarter ones who can see thru the bullshit, but there are far more who will believe it even if only subconsciously. Plus–if a few smart ones get too vocal in calling out the game–you can just condemn them for heresy and turn the crowd against them. Or (if they’re useful) just let them in on the action and ordain them as priests. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/35 "2013-03-21T19:20:24Z")
> [@](#): > > There have certainly been examples of oppressed people who were highly religious. However, religious fervor is certainly not limited to oppressed people. Overall, some religions seem to thrive quite well among free people, most notably Christianity. Therefore Marx’s characterization of religion is wrong. I’m not a big fan of Marx, but this doesn’t follow. The definition of “free people” you are applying does not match Marx’ idealsociety by any means: inequality in wealth, unequal access to services, class tratification, etc. More to the point, Mar does not argue that religion will magically disappear if the causes of suffering were removed, only that it would no longer be necessary and thus could/should be removed. Abolition of religion, for Marx, is something that needs to be asked (encouraged, demanded, . . .) of the people. Not something that follow necessarily from the creation of a Marxist economy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/36 "2013-03-21T20:06:23Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Appearances can be deceiving. It is easy to believe that spirituality is built into our wiring but it is nearly impossible to prove or disprove, because clean samples are hard to come by, as well as unbiased researchers. Well, the fact that every culture on the face of the Earth throughout the history of mankind had some sort of religion seems to be a good clue. And opium? Really? I always thought it was opiate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341/37 "2013-03-21T20:54:46Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Ah, but a god can be everywhere and anywhere, meaning he can ‘enforce’ the code even when you think nobody’s looking. Sure that’s less effective for the smarter ones who can see thru the bullshit, but there are far more who will believe it even if only subconsciously. Plus–if a few smart ones get too vocal in calling out the game–you can just condemn them for heresy and turn the crowd against them. Or (if they’re useful) just let them in on the action and ordain them as priests. I agree there are circumstances where religion has an advantage. But it’s not every circumstance. It’s much more difficult in much of the modern world to use religion to control people because they aren’t believers, or they have a diversity of beliefs. You can still see religious fervor in the establishment of non-religious movements though, usually through the use of fear. Fear of real things like death and torture are as good or better than fear of a god in many circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religion-was-invented-to-control-the-masses/653341.md?page=1)