# Religions that preach hate are evil **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879 "2008-12-27T21:31:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/81 "2009-01-01T23:41:09Z")
> [@solkoe](#): > > Well I may be off on this. Check out this [site](http://www.worldconflictstoday.com/?a_username=GCPSS&a_password=GCPSS) and decide for yourself. > I count six out of 10 conflicts being related to Islamic fundamentalism. Just because a country has Islamic people in it doesn’t mean that a fight is over Islamic fundamentalism. And 10 places is an awful small sample. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/82 "2009-01-02T08:53:11Z")
> [@solkoe](#): > > Well I may be off on this. Check out this [site](http://www.worldconflictstoday.com/?a_username=GCPSS&a_password=GCPSS) and decide for yourself. > I count six out of 10 conflicts being related to Islamic fundamentalism. Only because Christian fundamentalists had a huge head start (Crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts, missionaries, etc. . . . racism, anti-semitism, homophobia). The Muslims are just trying to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/83 "2009-01-02T09:54:33Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I can accept this, but it grates on me that if the extremists make up 10% of the population, that the other 90% hasn’t done much other than issue statements. If they truly disapproved of what was going on they would divorce themselves from the extremists and offer them neither support, nor access to any of the 90%'s mosques etc. How do you know this isn’t going on? I mean, the problem with “they should be doing more than issuing statements” argument is that it’s pretty much the biggest overt thing to do. A friend of mine is Muslim, and he very much despises extremists. I have very little doubt that he would do anything to support them. There really isn’t any way, however, for you to know that unless, well, statements are issued. Indeed, the kind of statements i’ve seen come out in these recent times have very much been along the lines of divorcing themselves from extremism, denying them aid and so forth. I mean, i’ve heard nothing of your deeds opposing Islamic extremism except what you’ve said here. Should I therefore assume that you do not “truly” disapprove - or would you be offended by the suggestion, however veiled, that not only do you approve (or, at worst, not care) but are lying about it? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/84 "2009-01-02T12:41:23Z")
Actually, it seems that apparently issuing statements is pretty much the totality of what they can do. > [@](#): > > Excommunication as exists in Christian faiths does not exist in Islam. The nearest approximation is takfir, a declaration that an individual or group is kafir (or kuffar in plural), a non-believer. This does not prevent an individual from taking part in any Islamic rite or ritual, and since the matter of whether a person is kafir is a rather subjective matter the true answer to which is known only to God, a declaration of takfir is generally considered null and void if the target refutes it or if the Islamic community in which he or she lives refuses to accept it. > > However, takfir remains a highly contentious issue in Islam, primarily because there is no universally accepted authority that it has sanction in Islamic law. Indeed, according to classical commentators, the reverse seems to hold true given Muhammad reportedly equated the act of declaring someone a kafir itself to blasphemy if the person concerned maintained that he was a Muslim. I’m not certain what more they can do, but only a few councils have issued Fatwas against extremists, and those have all been in the west. I may have spoken too hastily before. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/85 "2009-01-02T12:49:00Z")
Afterthought that missed the edit: Perhaps all the various councils that denounce extremism could form a representative council to deal with issues that affect all Muslims? It wouldn’t have authority to mess with doctrine from sect to sect, but it could issue fatwas with significant weight, and in effect both divorce itself from the extremists and help improve and publicize the image of the peaceable, reasonable Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/86 "2009-01-03T01:58:36Z")
> [@solkoe](#): > > Well I may be off on this. Check out this [site](http://www.worldconflictstoday.com/?a_username=GCPSS&a_password=GCPSS) and decide for yourself. > I count six out of 10 conflicts being related to Islamic fundamentalism. I find it truly sad that your linked site purports to be an aid to education. Let’s look at their ten conflicts: **Afghanistan** A low-intensity war pitting Afghanistan’s democratically elected government, which is backed by international troops, against militants from the Taliban and al-Qa‘ida. **Basque Country** A struggle between the Spanish government and ETA, a terrorist group, over the issue of Basque independence. **Chechnya** A war over whether or not Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation. \*\*Colombia \*\* A fight involving left-wing guerrillas, right-wing paramilitaries, and the Colombian government. **Darfur** A campaign of violence by government-backed militias against groups of rebels and their supporters. \*\*Iraq \*\* A brutal insurgency with elements of a low-intensity civil war. **Jammu and Kashmir** A longstanding disagreement between India and Pakistan over the status of a mountainous Himalayan region. **Korean Peninsula** An ongoing conflict between North and South Korea, turned into a crisis by North Korea’s pursuit of nuclear weapons. **Northern Ireland** A struggle between those who want Northern Ireland to rejoin Ireland and those who want it to stay in the United Kingdom. **Palestinian Territories** A fight between the Israelis and the Palestinians over sovereignty of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. They include Northern Ireland where there is an active peace effort under way and where the few outbreaks of violence are being attributed to fewer than 100 dissidents. They also include Korea where there has been a lot of tension, but no actual conflict in decades. OTOH, they ignore Sri Lanka, Congo, Philipines, the Indian state of Assam, and other locations where active fighting is either constant or sufficiently frequent, if sporadic, to be labled an actual war. That being said, their observations about the conflicts are still more accurate than your conclusions. Note that Jammu and Kashmir, Iraq, Chechnya, and Darfur are correctly identified as power struggles about the dominion of land and have nothing to do with “Fundamentalist Islam.” (Muslims in those areas have sought or been offered support from Fundamentalist Muslims who are seeking to create a world-wide support network for their own ends, but none of those conflicts actually originated from a desire among the combatants to establish a Muslim land or to resurrect the Caliphate.) So, of the ten in your site’s list plus an additional four or more conflicts, only two are actually connected directly to Fundamentalist Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879/87 "2009-01-03T03:00:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, of the ten in your site’s list plus an additional four or more conflicts, only two are actually connected directly to Fundamentalist Islam. One, IMHO. The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is also at base a stuggle over territory, not faith. As much as jihadist organizations like Hamas and smaller groups like the PIJ have risen in stature over the past decade or so, it was initiated before they were born. Most if not all of the old-school Palestinian terrorist organizations were secular ( frequently Marxist-leaning or tinged ) and included high-ranking members from Christian families among their number. Secular, Christian and moderate Muslim Palestinians are not vastly friendlier to Israel than their extremist cousins. _Related_ is a weasley word that can mean a number of things, but only Afghanistan dips a toe over the edge to the extent that I would consider a conflict over fundamentalist Islam per se to be a dominant factor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religions-that-preach-hate-are-evil/478879.md?page=4)