# Religious Accommodation {Christian postal worker case} **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267 "2023-01-15T17:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/121 "2023-01-18T15:12:43Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > “The job requires working on Sunday. Can you do this? No? Well, I’m afraid I’ll have to get someone who can.” That’s pretty much the situation now. An employer is not required to provide a religious accommodation if it has more than de minimis cost to them. You do have to look at each case on its own merits, but in a nutshell that’s the general guideline. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Chick-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby have been mentioned as places you can work if you want to be sure you don’t have to work on Sundays. What if one of those companies were sold to a new owner, who decided to open on Sundays and require all employees to work then? Employers have the right to control their business hours and the hours their employees work. If Chick-Fil-A decides to open on Sunday, they aren’t necessarily required to accommodate every employee who wants Sunday off. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/122 "2023-01-18T17:57:05Z")
In the United States the definition of religious accommodation is currently: “no one can be required to follow any rule that the white Christian right wing dislikes; hopefully hurting or owning the libs at the same time.” For example, there is a less than 0 percent chance that we would not have had vaccine mandates if it was just Muslims who were against the mandates. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/123 "2023-01-18T20:31:09Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > “The job requires working on Sunday. Can you do this? No? Well, I’m afraid I’ll have to get someone who can.” I don’t think it was like that. IIRC, he wasn’t asked before he was hired, and they told him he had to work on Sundays after some time on the job. I am not defending him, but it is not like taking a job where you know you will have to work on days you can’t work. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You may be right, but what complicates matters in my mind is if he took the job with the understanding that it wouldn’t involve working on Sundays, and they changed the conditions later. IIRC, that is what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/124 "2023-01-19T01:32:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Chick-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby have been mentioned as places you can work if you want to be sure you don’t have to work on Sundays [At least one Chik-Fil-A’s employees worked on a Sunday](https://www.simplemost.com/chick-fil-decided-open-sunday/). Mind you, it was a very good reason and, in my personal opinion, it shows more Christian behavior than the chain’s usual policies. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/125 "2023-01-19T04:36:50Z")
I’m sorry, but that’s a common misbelief about what the Constitution is. It doesn’t “allow” things, it (esp. the Bill of Rights) states how the government cannot infringe upon on our existing rights. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/126 "2023-01-19T12:46:45Z")
As it applies to the OP, my point is that we are allowed to believe as we wish. That is independent of work requirements. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/127 "2023-01-19T12:47:38Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > US constitution gives religious beliefs special protection > > The Constitution allows individuals to believe as they choose. It does not make others responsible for implementing those beliefs. It depends what you mean by “making others responsible for implementing…” It’s because of the constitution that the last time i was called for jury duty, i didn’t serve. I told the judge that serving on that trial would interfere with cooking the passover dinner for my family. He asked if that meant it would interfere with practicing my religion, and i said yes, and he excused me. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/128 "2023-01-19T14:34:13Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > it would interfere with practicing my religion Good point and probably worthy of it’s own thread. Free exercise of religion is a ghastly concept. Perhaps the issue here is ‘what are the limits of accommodation’. The judge had other jurors. If he hadn’t he might not have been so lenient. Where do you draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/129 "2023-01-19T14:49:52Z")
Rightly or wrongly , if the judge didn’t have enough other jurors after accommodating religious beliefs there probably wouldn’t be a need for a jury on that date/time - because if a large proportion of the jury pool had religious beliefs that would prevent them from serving on a jury on February 10 , the chances are excellent that a large proportion of the lawyers, court staff , witnesses and so on have similar religious beliefs and any proceedings that require a jury would not be scheduled for that day. This happens sometimes in situations that have nothing to do with a religious belief _per_ _se_ - I have never heard anybody claim that they needed the entire day off from work on December 24 for religious reasons , but every job I’ve ever had avoided meetings, hearings , trainings on that date just as they would be avoided on the Monday before Election Day or the Friday after Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/130 "2023-01-19T14:53:47Z")
Yup. No serves jury duty on Christmas day, nor on Easter. This accommodation just means that Jews and Muslims are not disadvantaged as compared to Christians in their civic responsibilities. For various reasons, I would not be eligible for most juries, and this is one that I could have served on, so I was a little disappointed that the timing didn’t work. But grateful that I didn’t have to be tied up in the courtroom when I needed to prepare for Passover. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/131 "2023-01-19T14:57:31Z")
Yes, it seems like most people manage to take it in stride by avoiding conflict or adjusting to the situation. I do not recall it was ever a general work issue. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/132 "2023-01-19T17:27:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > they told him he had to work on Sundays after some time on the job. After 7 years, IIRC. USPS changed things after it entered into a deal with Amazon to deliver their packages on Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/133 "2023-01-19T20:45:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Why are they not a “fundemental component” of my personal identity **worthy of protection**? You don’t have the votes. That is all. Sometimes we forget that law is (ideally) a byproduct of popularity contests. It often doesn’t live up to personal ethical standards. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2023, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/134 "2023-01-20T10:12:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I tend to agree. But the US constitution gives religious beliefs special protection, and the US congress has codified that into laws to protect various religious beliefs. So that’s the rules of the game in the US And it was a short-sighted decision. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/135 "2023-06-29T23:40:17Z")
Major update: The Supreme Court decision is in. Unanimous (!) decision in favor of the postal worker. Apparently they threw out the “de minimis” standard and put in a new one: “Instead, the court explained, an employer must accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs unless it can show that doing so would “result in substantial increased costs in relation to the conduct of” the employer’s business.” From here: > **[Justices rule in favor of evangelical Christian postal worker - SCOTUSblog](https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/justices-rule-in-favor-of-evangelical-christian-postal-worker/)** > > Federal law bars employers from discriminating against workers for practicing their religion unless the employer can show that the worker’s religious practice cannot “reasonably” be accommodated without “undue hardship.” The Supreme Court on Thursday... ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/136 "2023-06-29T23:59:55Z")
I’m not terribly surprised that it’s unanimous - the old standard more or less invalidated the whole concept of accommodations. But this decision doesn’t really mean Groff “won” although I’ve seen it reported that way - it just means the lower court must reconsider the case under a new standard. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/137 "2023-06-30T00:03:44Z")
Is the ruling that any one religious accommodation cannot cause undue hardship, or that religious accommodations as a whole cannot cause undue hardship? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/138 "2023-06-30T00:05:17Z")
I look forward to “an employer must accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs” not actually meaning an employee’s religious beliefs for certain religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/139 "2023-06-30T00:28:18Z")
Some religions are more equal than others. _Much_ more equal. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267/140 "2023-06-30T01:03:26Z")
> [@Amy Howe "Justices rule in favor of evangelical Christian postal worker](#): > > In a press release, the First Liberty Institute, which represented Groff, hailed the decision as a “far-reaching” one that means “fewer religious employees will have to choose between their faith and their job.” Thursday’s ruling, the group said, “means that more employers will be legally required to respect their religious employees by granting them accommodations,” which religious employees “often seek” “to honor their holy days, to take prayer breaks during the day, to dress according to their religious beliefs, or to otherwise not be forced to violate their religious beliefs on the job.” With respect to the First Liberty Institute, the de minimus standard already made it difficult for employers to refuse accomodations for dress or prayer breaks and I don’t expect this decision to have an impact on those situations. Looks like I’ll be having a word with my attorneys about what constitutes a substantial increase in cost. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-accommodation-christian-postal-worker-case/978267.md?page=8)