# Religious and atheist Dopers: What makes you so sure? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2021, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328 "2021-06-01T03:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/225 "2021-06-03T18:20:03Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > Yes, learning which are your own thoughts and which are not is a big part of the process of hearing God speaking to you. For me, it’s easiest to tell when I have thoughts telling me to take a very good & kind action which I have absolutely no desire to do. In fact I am very, very sure I don’t want to do it. We all have good impulses and bad impulses, and our social conditioning leads most of us to do the good, not the bad. Sociopaths lack this. But that wasn’t my point. In science you don’t try to prove your hypothesis correct, you try to prove it wrong, and only if you fail to do this can you accept it, provisionally. The null hypothesis here is that it all comes from your head. To disprove this - and show it might come from God, you need to find evidence that it can’t come from your head, like hearing things you couldn’t know by yourself. And it has to be very specific, not something like “I’ll get through this.” Scientific predictions are very precise - we will see Mercury at this location. Religious predictions (not made after the fact) are fuzzy. Jesus will come back sometime, somehow. And failed ones get explained away, like the Kingdom of God being established before all his listeners died. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/226 "2021-06-03T18:55:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If I may junior-mod a bit, I am not asking for a thread to turn into yet another age-old rehash of whether God exists or not. I’m just asking everyone to share their experience/path without sniping at others’. if you ask “what exactly makes you so **sure that your viewpoint is the correct one** ” then you are by definition inviting a discussion as to whether God (or any god) exists. I agree about the sniping part, though. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/227 "2021-06-03T19:47:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In science you don’t try to prove your hypothesis correct, you try to prove it wrong, and only if you fail to do this can you accept it, provisionally. You also welcome others to try to prove it wrong. In religion, this is usually called heresy. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/228 "2021-06-03T20:46:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s spelled “og” I believe May I spell it Godott? It is mix of God (English), Gott (German) and Godot (Beckett), and I like it. I know I am the only one who uses that term (I made it up myself!), but I would like to keep on using it. Hope that is OK. And I am and have always been, as far as I can remember, an atheist. Why? It was evident to me. There is no Godott, I have no immortal soul. > [@saje](#): > > I refer to myself as a heathen, more or less tongue-in-cheek. That is a nice way to put it. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/229 "2021-06-03T22:53:14Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > May I spell it Godott? Og smash Godott! ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/230 "2021-06-03T23:05:37Z")
smörgåsbord! ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/231 "2021-06-05T05:42:15Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I just don’t get that has anything to do with your original comment about still believing in honesty, truth, etc. It seemed you were saying that people thought “non believer” meant you didn’t believe in anything at all. Now it seems you are saying that they think “non believer” means they only think you don’t believe in their specific god. Which is it? It seems to me that “non-believer” is a term that people use to describe people who do not believe the same way as themselves, usually with respect to religious beliefs. In my experience, it seems to refer to non-Christians as perceived by Christians, but I suppose it could refer to whatever set of beliefs the majority adopt. I usually hear it to refer to atheists and I find the term presumptuous and offensive. Is that any clearer for you? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/232 "2021-06-05T06:47:46Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > It seems to me that “non-believer” is a term that people use to describe people who do not believe the same way as themselves, usually with respect to religious beliefs. In my experience, it seems to refer to non-Christians as perceived by Christians, but I suppose it could refer to whatever set of beliefs the majority adopt. I usually hear it to refer to atheists and I find the term presumptuous and offensive. Is that any clearer for you? Do you have any examples of Christians calling Jews non-believers? I’ve never been called that when I had my Jewish hat on. As an atheist I don’t find it offensive, since belief in any god is kind of implied by the context. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/233 "2021-06-05T07:57:14Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > It seems to me that “non-believer” is a term that people use to describe people who do not believe the same way as themselves, usually with respect to religious beliefs. In my experience, it seems to refer to non-Christians as perceived by Christians, but I suppose it could refer to whatever set of beliefs the majority adopt. I usually hear it to refer to atheists and I find the term presumptuous and offensive. Is that any clearer for you? Yes that is clearer. In this thread though, we have someone who does not believe in God or gods etc but doesn’t like the term “atheist”. As an atheist myself, it seemed like a reasonable way of referring to someone who doesn’t like to be called an atheist but who also doesn’t believe in any gods. What would you call them? ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/234 "2021-06-05T08:33:15Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > …someone who doesn’t like to be called an atheist but who also doesn’t believe in any gods. What would you call them? A ‘person’? There are two kinds of people in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world, and those who don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/235 "2021-06-05T11:25:07Z")
What wasn’t clear originally is that you don’t like the term “non-believer” as applied by “believers”. I had originally thought you didn’t like atheists referring to themselves as a “non-believer” and I couldn’t really see the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/236 "2021-06-06T02:52:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do you have any examples of Christians calling Jews non-believers? I’ve never been called that when I had my Jewish hat on. As an atheist I don’t find it offensive, since belief in any god is kind of implied by the context. I can think of Christians calling Jews many other things, such as Christ-killers, but no, I have not heard of Christians calling Jews non-believers. I find it presumptuous to call an atheist a non-believer just because they don’t believe in God. One can believe in many other concepts, such as science. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/237 "2021-06-06T02:54:51Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Yes that is clearer. In this thread though, we have someone who does not believe in God or gods etc but doesn’t like the term “atheist”. As an atheist myself, it seemed like a reasonable way of referring to someone who doesn’t like to be called an atheist but who also doesn’t believe in any gods. What would you call them? I think the term atheist is perfectly suitable. It means literally one who believes in no god or gods. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe in other fairly universal concepts like justice or hard work. Not sure why the term “believe” got owned by religion. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/238 "2021-06-06T02:57:44Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > What wasn’t clear originally is that you don’t like the term “non-believer” as applied by “believers”. I had originally thought you didn’t like atheists referring to themselves as a “non-believer” and I couldn’t really see the issue. I think atheists can describe themselves as anything they want to. Every atheist I’ve ever met, including the ones on this board, clearly believe in something, whether it be citing your sources or the scientific method. Many also seem to believe in karma although they might not call it that. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/239 "2021-06-06T03:23:24Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Og smash Godott! Puny god! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/240 "2021-06-06T05:40:48Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I think the term atheist is perfectly suitable. It means literally one who believes in no god or gods. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe in other fairly universal concepts like justice or hard work. Not sure why the term “believe” got owned by religion. Of course it is. But some people who don’t believe in any god don’t like the term “atheist”, so in a thread when I’m trying to talk to an atheist who refuses to be called “atheist”, I referred to them as a “non-believer” out of respect for their distaste for “atheist”. Is there a better term I could’ve used? I don’t know or care, I think “non-believer” is fine in context. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/241 "2021-06-06T06:04:50Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I find it presumptuous to call an atheist a non-believer just because they don’t believe in God. One can believe in many other concepts, such as science. Like I said, I don’t have a low enough opinion of theists to think that any would mean “don’t believe in anything” as opposed to “don’t believe in (my) god.” Anyhow, if someone did think that, I have the perfect refutation. “I’m not a non-believer. I believe I’ll have a drink.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/242 "2021-06-06T06:12:27Z")
I have personally encountered religionists that think that atheists are believers…_In Satan!_ ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/243 "2021-06-06T14:21:52Z")
…which is ironic because it is those religionists who actually believe in satan. I imagine most of us atheists believe that neither God nor Satan exist. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328/244 "2021-06-06T20:34:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Like I said, I don’t have a low enough opinion of theists to think that any would mean “don’t believe in anything” as opposed to “don’t believe in (my) god.” > Anyhow, if someone did think that, I have the perfect refutation. “I’m not a non-believer. I believe I’ll have a drink.” I believe you may be on to something there. Or maybe just on something. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-and-atheist-dopers-what-makes-you-so-sure/943328.md?page=13)