# religious conversion for spouse/family **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088 "2009-09-22T14:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/1 "2009-09-22T14:53:12Z")
It’s not uncommon for people to switch/abandon religions. Most of the time it’s a result of exposure to new ideas and/or a change in the way a person thinks. This meshes with my understanding of belief as a dependent variable whose state is a function of many independent variables. That is, one’s beliefs about the nature of the universe are a consequence of many other inputs, and cannot be changed unless there is a preceding change in one or more of those other inputs. Less commonly, we hear of people who “convert” so that their new religion is the same as that of their spouse. This does not mesh with my understanding of belief. How does a person wake up one day and say “from this moment forward I choose to believe that Jesus Christ was (not?) the son of God,” and/or other sentiments that contradict/disavow their previously held beliefs? Do they believe their new religious tenets (and did they believe their old ones) in the same way that I believe, for example, that the sun is a gigantic spherical hydrogen-fueled fusion engine 93 million miles from earth? Has anyone here spontaneously converted for the sake of their spouses? What’s the deal? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/2 "2009-09-22T15:23:50Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > It’s not uncommon for people to switch/abandon religions. Most of the time it’s a result of exposure to new ideas and/or a change in the way a person thinks. This meshes with my understanding of belief as a dependent variable whose state is a function of many independent variables. That is, one’s beliefs about the nature of the universe are a consequence of many other inputs, and cannot be changed unless there is a preceding change in one or more of those other inputs. > > Less commonly, we hear of people who “convert” so that their new religion is the same as that of their spouse. This does not mesh with my understanding of belief. How does a person wake up one day and say “from this moment forward I choose to believe that Jesus Christ was (not?) the son of God,” and/or other sentiments that contradict/disavow their previously held beliefs? Do they believe their new religious tenets (and did they believe their old ones) in the same way that I believe, for example, that the sun is a gigantic spherical hydrogen-fueled fusion engine 93 million miles from earth? > > Has anyone here spontaneously converted for the sake of their spouses? What’s the deal? I converted to Judaism and married a Jewish man. I didn’t convert entirely so that my religion would be the same as my spouse’s. However, I got an up-close view of Judaism and Jewish practices that I wouldn’t have gotten had I not been joining a Jewish family. What I saw of it appealed to me, so I converted. I was brought up Christian, but had been nothing for a few years because I didn’t believe in the tenets of Christianity. I tried to, but I couldn’t do it. Judaism’s kind of funny in terms of belief- it’s a lot more about what you do (keep kosher, don’t work on the Sabbath, etc) than what you believe. According to some authorities (but others disagree), there is a command that a Jew should believe that there is one God. Any other beliefs are pretty much up to you. You’re a good Jew if you do what Judaism says you should do, and you can believe what you like. For example, there is a wide range of beliefs in Judaism about what happens to a person after they die. Some Jews believe in heaven and hell, some believe in a hell that is not eternal, some believe in reincarnation, and so on and so forth. There are Jews who practice Judaism just to keep someone in their family happy, or for other reasons other than personal belief. Not all of these people are converts. This is definitely true of Christianity as well (I went to church for several years without believing, but went to keep the peace with my mom), and probably every other religion that has ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/3 "2009-09-22T15:43:16Z")
My brother and his family just converted to Mormanism because they have free day care. When I asked he said its pretty much all the same anyway. I suspect he is not a deep believer. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/4 "2009-09-22T15:51:26Z")
I converted because of my wife - I guess. I had always been a “seeker” of sorts - my wife’s faith introduced me to a direction that I decided to follow further. It’s not a matter of “spontaneous conversion”, it’s the result of an introduction that I wanted to follow further on my own. She’s since abandoned the faith - or at least cooled it to a point it’s not visible in her life - and I’ve continued down the road. We have divorced as well but that decision was not based on changing faiths (other than her loss of faith, I suspect, made cheating on me less an issue for her.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/5 "2009-09-22T15:55:56Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > My brother and his family just converted to Mormanism because they have free day care. When I asked he said its pretty much all the same anyway. I suspect he is not a deep believer. That’s the key. The “deep believer” thing. I could no more change my belief system than I could my sexual orientation or my race — precisely because I am a “deep believer”. But I realize that for some, it’s just a thing like a social club, or a business networking deal, or as in the case of this thread, just pleasing someone else. Of course, it is also possible that the spouse finds their “deep belief” in their partner’s belief system. All our life journeys are private and subjective, and you just never know what’s around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/6 "2009-09-22T17:31:27Z")
My grandfather converted for my grandmother My mother expected my father to convert like my grandfather did. She was surprised and disappointed when he did not. One reason I got married so late in life is not only would I not convert, I will not attend any church service or related groups other than the occasional marriage, funeral and the like and I always made it known early in the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/7 "2009-09-22T17:48:31Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > One reason I got married so late in life is not only would I not convert, I will not attend any church service or related groups other than the occasional marriage, funeral and the like and I always made it known early in the relationship. Of course, level of religious observance (or lack thereof) is an important thing to come to an agreement with a potential spouse on. Just because somebody converts to your religion doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to observe that religion the exact same way you do. Good for you for being honest and upfront about this. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/8 "2009-09-22T17:50:03Z")
Just to throw out some factual info (though it might be raining on your parade), people almost unanimously take on their religion due to social bonds and again change it due to social bonds. 99% of the children of Christians become Christians. 99% of the children of Hindus become Hindu. 99% of the children of atheists are atheists. When a person converts to a new religion or a new religious denomination, it is generally because their spouse was of that religion. There is very little evidence that many people study up on varying religions and choose one as a rational course of action. Yes, the do exist, but given that the number of people who change to a new religion is less than 1%, and most of that is due to ones spouse/friends, it’s really not a significant occurrence. > **[Invitation to the Sociology of Religion](https://books.google.com/books?id=yX3qTZUfLP4C&lpg=PA49&ots=y4PC9Sa629&dq=percent%20of%20children%20same%20religious%20belief%20parents&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=percent%20of%20children%20same%20religious%20belief%20parents&f=false)** > > This book intends to serve as a conversational, colorful, engaging, and provocative introduction to the sociology of religion for undergraduates. Written in lively prose, this volume aims to introduce students to the major themes, problems and goals... ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/9 "2009-09-22T17:53:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Just to throw out some factual info (though it might be raining on your parade), people almost unanimously take on their religion due to social bonds and again change it due to social bonds. 99% of the children of Christians become Christians. 99% of the children of Hindus become Hindu. 99% of the children of atheists are atheists. When a person converts to a new religion or a new religious denomination, it is generally because their spouse was of that religion. > > There is very little evidence that many people study up on varying religions and choose one as a rational course of action. Yes, the do exist, but given that the number of people who change to a new religion is less than 1%, and most of that is due to ones spouse/friends, it’s really not a significant occurrence. > > [Invitation to the Sociology of Religion - Phil Zuckerman - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=yX3qTZUfLP4C&lpg=PA49&ots=y4PC9Sa629&dq=percent%20of%20children%20same%20religious%20belief%20parents&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=percent%20of%20children%20same%20religious%20belief%20parents&f=false) That can’t be true - where do atheists _come from_? At one point, close to 100% of people self-identified as some sort of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/10 "2009-09-22T17:54:47Z")
My own opinion is that “religion” is very often as much about self-identity with a particular group as about belief. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/11 "2009-09-22T18:33:27Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > My brother and his family just converted to Mormanism because they have free day care. When I asked he said its pretty much all the same anyway. I suspect he is not a deep believer. We have free day care? Where? Why are all us Mormon women always trying to trade babysitting then? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/12 "2009-09-22T19:01:08Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 99% of the children of Christians become Christians. 99% of the children of Hindus become Hindu. 99% of the children of atheists are atheists. When a person converts to a new religion or a new religious denomination, it is generally because their spouse was of that religion. > > There is very little evidence that many people study up on varying religions and choose one as a rational course of action. Yes, the do exist, but given that the number of people who change to a new religion is less than 1%, and most of that is due to ones spouse/friends, it’s really not a significant occurrence. I think the mechanism by which children inherit their parent’s religion is not the same as that by which an adult converts to their spouse’s religion. Children are taught - from before they can even think straight - that a certain set of belief is true. They’re not even taught that they’re “beliefs,” they’re just taught that “this IS:” Jesus died for your sins, or he’s not the son of God, or there is no god but Allah, or whatever. I’d agree that the vast majority of people don’t perform a critical investigation of other religions (or even their own), and the same is probably mostly true of people who convert to their spouse’s religion. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Brainiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/13 "2009-09-22T19:19:23Z")
Most of my cousins converted when they married. Catholic, protestant, and Jewish. I get it, although as an atheist I think it’s all irrelevant. Hardly matters which one is more wrong, as defined in your parents religion. The pastor may say “We believe this and those people praying across the street think that”, but mostly he’s wrong. People don’t even learn half the stuff, much less base their being on it. But sure, if you all must go to a building once a week, or even just major holidays, why not the same one. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/14 "2009-09-22T19:39:43Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That can’t be true - where do atheists _come from_? At one point, close to 100% of people self-identified as some sort of religion. Compound interest would be one. A 1% change over a hundred years that consistently moves in one direction (i.e. towards atheism/agnosticism) will eventually start showing significant results. I also suspect that there have also been a few social events in the 20th century that were met with an increase of personal re-evaluation of beliefs, like WWI, WWII, and the Communist movement. Since there currently is no such large movements, personal re-evaluation is allowed to sink to whatever level is the natural state. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/15 "2009-09-22T19:51:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Compound interest would be one. A 1% change over a hundred years that consistently moves in one direction (i.e. towards atheism/agnosticism) will eventually start showing significant results. I also suspect that there have also been a few social events in the 20th century that were met with an increase of personal re-evaluation of beliefs, like WWI, WWII, and the Communist movement. > > Since there currently is no such large movements, personal re-evaluation is allowed to sink to whatever level is the natural state. A 1% change over a hundred years doesn’t amount to much, as the relevant unit is not the year, but the _generation_. 100 years is what, four generations? Assume 1% change in each generation - that doesn’t leave much time for ‘compound interest’. I agree that many social upheavals can result in rapid change. But these are not limited to wars and the like. The '60s probably resulted in a great degree of atheism - not to mention interest in other faiths, particularly of the Eastern variety. I simply do not believe that the level of committment to a particular faith (or lack thereof) is so very high, as so many events - social change, intermarriage, personal discovery - have the power to effect rapid change. Anecdotally, many I know have changed the faith they were born into. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/16 "2009-09-22T19:51:51Z")
But religion is resurgent in places where it had been suppressed by communism and such. And I rebelled against my parents’ religion. I began a “rational investigation”, but my intention had been to debunk. Funny thing happened on the way to the debunking. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/17 "2009-09-22T20:27:53Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Just to throw out some factual info (though it might be raining on your parade), people almost unanimously take on their religion due to social bonds and again change it due to social bonds. 99% of the children of Christians become Christians. 99% of the children of Hindus become Hindu. 99% of the children of atheists are atheists. When a person converts to a new religion or a new religious denomination, it is generally because their spouse was of that religion. > > There is very little evidence that many people study up on varying religions and choose one as a rational course of action. Yes, the do exist, but given that the number of people who change to a new religion is less than 1%, and most of that is due to ones spouse/friends, it’s really not a significant occurrence. But [The 2001 American Religious Identification Survey says that 16% of Americans have changed their religious identification at some point in their lives](http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=12716). The family and ethnic ties that used to keep people in the same religion are not as strong as they used to be, and choosing a religion based on studying up on various religions is on the increase. You can’t really draw a bright line between “converted because he/she studied this religion and it appealed” and “converted because he/she met somebody of this religion”, either. The two are not mutually exclusive. In my case, it was a bit of both. I seriously doubt I’m the only person to convert from one religion to another for both reasons, either. In fact, if you were working with a rabbi to convert to Judaism, and you were to come right out and say “I’m only doing this because I’m marrying this person”, your rabbi probably wouldn’t let you continue the conversion process. That’s not considered a kosher reason for converting to Judaism if that’s your only reason. You also have to keep in mind that people tend to meet others with similar interests and hobbies through that interest. People who are interested in Judaism have a lot of opportunities to meet other Jews at services and Jewish-oriented events, similar to how people who are interested in ballroom dancing (or any other hobby) meet each other at hobby-oriented events. In other words, even if you started your conversion process having no social ties to Jews, you might make some Jewish friends (or meet a Jewish future spouse) during the process. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-conversion-for-spouse-family/511088/18 "2009-09-23T05:37:41Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > But [The 2001 American Religious Identification Survey says that 16% of Americans have changed their religious identification at some point in their lives](http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=12716). They’re including denomination. Denomination hopping sits at somewhere between 10-40% depending on what your original denomination was; some are better at maintaining their people. 16% as the overall average seems reasonable. > [@](#): > > In fact, if you were working with a rabbi to convert to Judaism, and you were to come right out and say “I’m only doing this because I’m marrying this person”, your rabbi probably wouldn’t let you continue the conversion process. That’s not considered a kosher reason for converting to Judaism if that’s your only reason. That may be true, but like how the OP thinks that most people chose their religion, yet statistically that’s very unlikely given the massive link between an individual’s religion and his parents’. I don’t see any reason why it would be different here; people would believe that they were changing due to a spiritual change in themselves. But looking at the numbers, it looks like probably family ties has far more to do with it than any particular religious experience. Anyways, I’d rather not change the thread into a debate. I just dislike for assumptions to stand without people at least reviewing the numbers.