# Religious Faith is an Emotion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701 "2000-08-01T15:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/21 "2000-08-01T19:27:14Z")
> [@](#): > > goboy, emotions are neurophysiological functions. It is true, to some extent, that faith is a philosophical position; however, it is nature of said philosophical position which is in question. If one adheres to the idea that the brain is the source of all functions, then faith can be categorized among emotions. That is such a non-sequitur! Are you saying that all neurological functions are emotions? That makes breathing and pupil dilation emotions, then! Are you saying beliefs are emotions? Then being a Republican is an emotion! Emotion is defined in Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 10th ed., as > [@](#): > > a state of feeling; a psychic and physical reaction as (anger or fear) subjectively experienced as strong feeling and physiologically involving changes that prepare the body for immediate, vigorous action. Words have meaning. If you twist the definition of words to suit your purposes, much like Humpty Dumpty with his “portmanteau” words in \* Through The Looking Glass\*, then it is you who makes conversation impossible. I repeat, faith in God is a philosophical position, arrived at through a combination of reason and intuition, not an emotion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/22 "2000-08-01T19:37:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* It comes to this… Atheism and other such skepticisms are simply spiritual and intellectual failings… And blahbiddy blahbiddy blah… [/quote] [/quote] Fair enough. I stand corrected - I too can now see how my post came off high handed at the start. Please substitute the first four words of my post with **"For your consideration…"** as for > [@](#): > > Red herring. I have not closed my mind. I feel that previously you offhandidly dismissed my position not because my understanding of “faith” was incorrect but because my definition of origin of “faith” was in conflict with your beliefs. I believe that we both have the same classical understanding of the meaning of “faith” as defined by M.Webster. We may never reach a similar understanding regarding it’s connection to deity. But ain’t it fun trying… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/23 "2000-08-01T19:39:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > Are you saying that all neurological functions are emotions? No, I said that emotions are neurological functions. Physical movements are other neurological functions. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by goboy \* > Words have meaning. If you twist the definition of words to suit your purposes, much like Humpty Dumpty with his “portmanteau” words in \* Through The Looking Glass_, > then it is you who makes conversation impossible. Yes, words have meaning. I have not “twisted” any definitions. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > I repeat, faith in God is a philosophical position, arrived at through a combination of reason and intuition, not an emotion. Reason is also a neurological function. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/24 "2000-08-01T19:42:02Z")
Egads . . . people are going to such outstanding lengths here to misunderstand each other, I wonder if I’m only imagining that everyone is posting in English. > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > goboy, emotions are neurophysiological functions. It is true, to some extent, that faith is a philosophical position; however, it is nature of said philosophical position which is in question. If one adheres to the idea that the brain is the source of all functions, then faith can be categorized among emotions. > > * * * > > That is such a non-sequitur! Are you saying that all neurological functions are emotions? The fact that all emotions are [the subjective experience of] neurophysiological functions does not imply that all neurophysiological functions are emotions. Where did you get that from? > [@](#): > > That makes breathing and pupil dilation emotions, then! No, it makes them functions which originate in the brain, just like he said. Again, “all emotions are brain functions” does not imply “all brain functions are emotions.” (And, come to think of it, changes in breathing and pupil dilation are in fact associated in differing ways with various emotions.) > [@](#): > > Are you saying beliefs are emotions? Then being a Republican is an emotion! Now _this_ is a non sequitur. To the extent that beliefs and other facets of an individual’s personality manifest in the brain, they are brain functions. That does not mean they are emotions. You’re taking Nen’s argument and trying, deliberately or otherwise, to make it appear that he proposed the converse of what he actually did. He didn’t say that everything that originates in the brain is an emotion; he said that emotions originate in the brain. > [@](#): > > a state of feeling; **a psychic and physical reaction as (anger or fear) subjectively experienced as strong feeling** and physiologically involving changes that prepare the body for immediate, vigorous action. Which is exactly what he said. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/25 "2000-08-01T19:47:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > That is such a non-sequitur! Are you saying that all neurological functions are emotions? Not even a little. I believe what Nen said was, and I quote: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nen_ > goboy, emotions are neurophysiological functions > [@](#): > > a state of feeling; a psychic and physical reaction as (anger or fear) subjectively experienced as strong feeling and physiologically involving changes that prepare the body for immediate, vigorous action. And few things move a person into action as much as religious rightuousness and ferver. Wars are fought on just such emotional swells. > [@](#): > > Words have meaning. If you twist the definition of words to suit your purposes, much like Humpty Dumpty with his “portmanteau” words in \* Through The Looking Glass\*, > then it is you who makes conversation impossible. I do not mean to offend but it was you who twisted Nen’s words to suit your purpose thus far. Perhaps it was all in the heat of a neurophysiological response. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/26 "2000-08-01T19:53:47Z")
If you want to talk about the kind of faith held by some theists, i.e., an intellectual belief (which is analogous to the faith held by the devil), then I grant you that it is a synaptic discharge. But if you want to talk about the kind of faith that God gives to those of us who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, then you will have to step into a different reference frame (the Spiritual metaphysic) for our discussion to be meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![lastgasp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@lastgasp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lastgasp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/27 "2000-08-01T19:58:01Z")
goboy: “I repeat, faith in God is a philosophical position, arrived at through a combination of reason and intuition, not an emotion.” This just doesn’t fly man. Faith and reason go together as well as oil and water. Faith, by definition, apprehends what reason cannot, excepting Anselm’s et al.'s pitiful “proofs” of the existence of God. For a select few though, I will agree that faith can be apprehended by dispassionately, but most apprehend faith emotionally. What emotion? Fear, easily, by a mile. Fear is the consequence of a person who percieves that his/her needs are not to be met. These needs being physical, security, emotional, intellectual…And what is God if not the ultimate provider, provider of food, wine, morals, love, hope, salvation…Further, what is the ultimate fear God countermands, death. Obviously I’m coming at this by way of Christianity, but I think the basic idea is applicable across the board, that faith is usually emotionally based, and by its nature can’t be justified by reason. ---
**Author:** ![lastgasp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@lastgasp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lastgasp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/28 "2000-08-01T19:59:49Z")
That last post was in reference to “pldennison” and not goboy. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/29 "2000-08-01T20:06:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Now this is a non sequitur. To the extent that beliefs and other facets of an individual’s personality manifest in the brain, they are brain functions. That does not mean they are emotions. Exactly right, but I responded to Nen saying, > [@](#): > > If one adheres to the idea that the brain is the source of all functions, then faith can be categorized among emotions. which seemed to me to be saying that all brain functions were emotions. I repeat, faith is not an emotion. I have no intention of twisting Nen’s words. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/30 "2000-08-01T20:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > That last post was in reference to “pldennison” and not goboy. Apologies. Nope, you had it right the first time. I didn’t post the sentence to which you were responding; goboy did. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/31 "2000-08-01T20:24:51Z")
Gosh, I’m in the minority here; well, “Hier Ich steh’, Ich kann nicht anders.” Lastgasp has a point, for faith, after all, ultimately must be “the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen.” However, despite its emotional components, one must \*\* decide\*\* to have faith, removing it from the category of emotions. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/32 "2000-08-01T20:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > If you want to talk about the kind of faith held by some theists, i.e., an intellectual belief (which is analogous to the faith held by the devil), then I grant you that it is a synaptic discharge. But if you want to talk about the kind of faith that God gives to those of us who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, then you will have to step into a different reference frame (the Spiritual metaphysic) for our discussion to be meaningful. Is that it then? No middle ground? No place to discuss the merrits and errors of each position without having to embrace the opposite extreme. We are at an impass then. You cannot permit yourself the latitude to consider the possibility that God is a construct of your own mind, while I cannot in good concience step off the edge of a cliff expecting to land safely into your Spiritual metaphysic and not plunge to my death on the rocks beneath. Yet I can show you the cliff and you cannot show me your Spiritual metaphysic. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/33 "2000-08-01T20:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Libertarian_ > If you want to talk about the kind of faith held by some theists, i.e., an intellectual belief (which is analogous to the faith held by the devil), then I grant you that it is a synaptic discharge. But if you want to talk about the kind of faith that God gives to those of us who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, then you will have to step into a different reference frame (the Spiritual metaphysic) for our discussion to be meaningful. I fail to understand the nuances between these two definitions of faith. Would you please elaborate, **Libertarian**? Moreover, why do you attribute intellectual faith to a devil and a non-intellectual faith to a god? **goboy** , do you understand my drift at this juncture or do you require additional elaboration? (Thank you for the additional clarification of my post **pldennison** and **QuickSilver** ). ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/34 "2000-08-01T20:36:31Z")
I understand, and I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/35 "2000-08-01T20:39:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > I understand, and I disagree. What, precisely, do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/36 "2000-08-01T20:41:01Z")
I believe Libertarian is talking about the faith held by the devils in hell in the first chapeter of the Epistle of James, intellectual faith that something exists, e.g., I believe Belgrade exists, even though I’ve never been there. Lib’s second definition can also be called trust, as in I trust you to do the right thing, I have faith in you, that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/37 "2000-08-01T21:56:31Z")
Nen, I hesitate to suggest you are being disingenuous, because you seem to be a clear-minded, reasonable poster. But I cannot understand how you can miss the distinction, which to me is clear as day, between: \> Quasi-emotional, and probably emotionally based, loving allegiance to another, involving the placing of trust in that other \> Intellectual adherence to a non-rational belief system \> The codification of such a belief system, with appropriate metaphysic appended I apologize for this sounding like a flame, but I can clearly see all three meanings in the word “faith” in different contexts, and am completely at a loss as to why you insist on failing to see the distinction. To say, “I believe that little green men from Mars exist,” does not mean that I put any trust in them, only that I have formed an intellectual conviction of their existence that I presumably have no proof of. To say, “I believe in you” means that I trust you, not that I have the theory that you do in fact exist. And to say “I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights” has a quite different meaning, involving both an intellectual adherence to a system of government defined on a piece of parchment in the National Archives and copied hither and yon, and a willingness to take action in support of same system – patriotism, if you will. I realize that I am using the word “believe” as the verb form of “faith” – not quite on target – but it clarifies for me the distinction that I see here. For many years I had the general, vague intellectual concept of the existence of God and adhered in loose terms to the theology of a church that I belonged to. Then I had a personal encounter with Him, and committed myself to Him. And the difference is that between doing a college paper on courtship customs and falling head-over-heels in love. ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/38 "2000-08-01T22:04:42Z")
Quicksilver, I like the analogy from goboy best - ‘I believe it exists, although I’ve never seen it’, substitute God, Belgrade, or Hennessee XO Cognac for the word ‘it’ in that sentence. Is this also an emotion? I don’t think so. I think this is a belief in something you have not seen, but have been taught/shown/convinced that it exists. I also believe that some base their faith in God simply on emotional factors - it feels good to pray and believe that someone hears the prayers, it makes one feel good to do what they believe is Gods work, etc. But not all faith is stricktly emotional. For instance, I have no particular religious affiliation, nor do I believe in any given religion as we define them, but I do believe in ‘Supreme Power’ for lack of better words, based on my knowledge of the Universe, and my belief that it’s all a bit much to have come about all on it’s own. That is very little to do with emotion, and is fairly similar to religious faith (I hope the same for the purposes of this discussion). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/39 "2000-08-01T22:11:19Z")
**GoBoy** > [@](#): > > However, despite its emotional components, one must decide to have faith, removing it from the category of emotions. Stellar analysis. Thank you for sharing it. > [@](#): > > Lib’s second definition can also be called trust, as in I trust you to do the right thing, I have faith in you, that sort of thing. Yes, trust is an excellent clarification of the term. **Nen** > [@](#): > > I fail to understand the nuances between these two definitions of faith. Would you please elaborate, Libertarian? Sadly, it was necessary to explain this. Happily, GoBoy and Poly did already. > [@](#): > > Moreover, why do you attribute intellectual faith to a devil and a non-intellectual faith to a god? If you argue against that, it will be a straw man. I attribute intellectual faith to the brain, and genuine faith to the heart. (By the way, would it be appropriate to refer to you as a nen?) ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701/40 "2000-08-01T22:20:23Z")
a nen to that 😉 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **Yes, trust is an excellent clarification of the term.** Blind trust would be even better. So, are you claiming you have trust in God, Lib? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-faith-is-an-emotion/27701.md?page=3)