# Religious fanatism in the US public sector **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434 "2003-08-15T18:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/121 "2003-08-17T17:37:51Z")
El Kabong, Try to read my posts in the context and intention they are written. And see to which member they are written. When I adress myself to one member, I don’t adress myself to all members and certainly don’t address myself to the whole of American. It’s very tempting to dream about having such a vast audience, you I don’t think I shall ever become president of the USA who can count on the attention of this audience. As for Walloon, I answered him in a former post. And if you hear Bush, you hear the word God. Most of the time every few sentences and often enough more then once in a sentence. And like I said: even if he uses it one or two times, that is too much to me and to people looking from the outside to the USA. All this rethoric about God is out of place for a president of a secular nation. I know Americans are that used to such oopen referation to God by officials that they probably don’t even hear it anymore. Yet I can assure you that non US’ers find it since decades highly disturbing and that this particular government and president beat all records. “Is God an American” was a few months ago even the title of an article in a famous Belgian newspaper, handling about this obsession of your president to tear God into everything and how irritating it is. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/122 "2003-08-17T17:58:12Z")
**Aldebaran** I have read your posts carefully and believe I understand them, despite your poor command of English. Here is the text of **Walloon’s** post that I was referring to: > [@](#): > > President Bush makes a weekly radio address to the nation. Since 2003 began, he has made 31 of these addresses. In only three of them did he make any mention at all of God or religion: 1) during the Easter/Passover season, 2) on our Independence Day, 3) and once during Operation Iraqi Freedom (“We know that freedom is the gift of God to all mankind, and we rejoice when others can share it.”) > > In all the various press conferences that President Bush has held in 2003, he has mentioned “God” once (March 6). You have not in fact responded directly to this post. Here is a statement from your most recent post: > [@](#): > > And if you hear Bush, you hear the word God. Most of the time every few sentences and often enough more then once in a sentence. This statement is false, as shown by **Walloon’s** above. If you had already acknowledged the factual basis of **Walloon’s** post, you could not have this statement. Do you want to continue making a complete fool of yourself, or do you concede the point? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/123 "2003-08-17T19:11:23Z")
I’m waiting too, **Aldebaran** , for you to address the facts that I presented. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/124 "2003-08-17T19:26:16Z")
Aldebaran, you have clearly been proven to be wrong. Will you please apoligize, and undertake not to spread lies and falsehoods again? But somehow I don’t think you will do that. I imagine that you will say that people in Europe have the impression that Bush mentions God all the time, and that is what you are talking about. Well, maybe they do have such an impression. But that impression is–as Walloon proved–a false, ignorant impression. You assume the idea is true, simply because many people believe it is true. The time has come for you to make a choice…will you support ingnorance, or will you fight ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/125 "2003-08-17T20:05:47Z")
**Aldebaran** , you asked what assertions you have made that people are having trouble with. Let’s start with your very last long post, shall we? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > **Well, if you feel comfortable with a president and politicians and judges who make of their faith constantly a statement in public speaches, thus clearly indicating that their faith influences their line of thinking and their way of governing and decision making, that is your choice.** First, many in this thread alone have indicated that they are not “comfortable” with those who allow their religious beliefs to _inappropriately interfere_ with their work as a public official. You have ignored this, because it does not coincide with your perspective which seems to be that any mention of faith or God in public discourse is an outrage, a point of view which Americans, in the main, do not share. Second, there is no evidence that the president, any politician or any judge is making faith-related statements “constantly” as a part of their public speech. **Walloon** posted evidence which shows that in the case of the president, he has made **four** public references to God in his weekly addresses and press conferences, at least once in relation to religious holidays celebrated by the majority of Americans. Despite this, you have repeated this claim of “constant” references which cannot be supported by any evidence. There is also the problem that as you are not in America, you are not able to hear the overwhelming majority of public statements by our elected officials, judges and so on. We are. We have two television networks dedicated to airing the proceedings of our House of Representatives and Senate whenever they are in session and statements, interviews, press conferences and so forth with various government officials at other times. We also have three national 24-hour news networks and three national networks with nightly news programs which broadcast statements, interviews, press conferences and the like from our national public officials every day, and local news broadcasts which broadcast statements, interviews, press conferences and so on from local officials. We have amazingly open access to what our officials have to say. Consequently, **we** are quite good judges of the content of their speeches but _also_ the content of their character in a way that those outside our country simply cannot be. We know how frequently religious mentions are made. We know which officials really are extremely religious. (Those you might brand as fanatics, a word which is, as you are aware, offensive.) We know which ones make passing remarks. When **we** say that you’re overstating this issue, why are you unwilling to accept that perhaps, just perhaps, we have a much greater depth of knowledge upon which to make that judgment than you are capable of, since you do not live here and do not have the ability to know our officials as we do? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > **You should be at the very least be able to understand that a president, government, judge who declare and show openly that God in the form Christians perceive Him is what inspires them, are showing constantly to the rest of the world that the USA is a country where Christian fanatics rule and where government decisions are largely influenced by such fanatics and where the State leader is such a fanatic.** We understand that there are people, such as yourself, you believe that. We also understand that there are people who perceive the situation very differently. We also understand that there are people who couldn’t care less about the religious beliefs of our leaders because they don’t affect them in any way. What I don’t think that any of us understand is why _you_, Aldebaran, think that you have enough knowledge to state so unequivocally what the “rest of the world” knows, sees, believes or perceives. Given that the “rest of the world” in this case is comprised of roughly 5,715,000,000 people in more than 180 nations, it is beyond the bounds of human ability for one person to make a statement which factually represents the perspective of the “rest of the world.” What you mean, I believe, is that your statements represent the opinion of “the part of the world which thinks the way that I do.” And that’s fine, there are undoubtedly many people who think the way that you do, I don’t think that anyone would dispute that or dispute that this represents an important task for the American people and government: dialoguing with those people in an effort to come to a better understanding of our respective perspectives. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > **Where rethorics like “God bless America”, “God’s Nation”, “God this and God that” are constantly part of public speaches of president and other civil servants payed by the tax money.** So to understand, rhetorical “God bless our nation” sentiments by public officials are unacceptable because those officials’ salaries – which compensate them for their actual administrative work – are paid with public funds? Yet, it’s acceptable to use public funds to pay the salaries of people whose entire job function is religious in nature, as in Belgium where public funding pays for religion teachers in the schools, by your own explanation. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > **Where children are forced to utter the name God daily at schools** No, they are not. In fact, the law clearly states that no one can be compelled to utter anything, child or adult, regardless of the nature of their objection. Now, if you have anything _factual_ you’d like to bring into this discussion, rather than the constant repackaging of your opinion, please have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/126 "2003-08-17T20:34:50Z")
I only say that what is clear outside the USA: That in the USA religion is mentioned and referred to in a way that makes others = people who aren’t Americans, very unconfortable and in fact: listening to it with amazing and disbelief because in the USA this seems to be absolutely normal. Further you choose to ignore my explanation as to why especially this president and government make people outside the USA listening with growing concern to this rethoric. And no way that your president during his presidency only reffered to God the few time Walloon comes up with. If that is the case then I must have and stil be watching and listening carefully tricked compilations of those few speeches = these words were and still are cutted and pasted/copied into all those I have heard and hear him make. Which then has to be done by a variety of newschannels outside the USA in an ongoing complot to make him appear for what he is not. Sorry, but I think that is a bit of an unbelievable scenario. If further a famous Belgian newspaper found it needed already months ago to come up with the title “IS GOD AN AMERICAN” then that had a reason. The reason was your president constantly tearing God into his public speaches and appearences. Your president makes no secret of it that he is inspired by his religion and in fact he made it clear that he feels inspired by God in person. You can deny this all you want : it remains common knowledge outside the USA and I don’t hear or read reports about this coming from one single side. As for your comment on the subsidizing of religions in Belgium: You choose to ignore my explanations on the system and my explanations on how impossible it is that religions can intertwine with governing. You also choosed to ignore that I added that everyone can make appeal to the right that none of his/her taxmoney is used for supporting any religion. And by the way: If no child is forced to utter the name of God in school, then why was there a few months ago such a drama around a parent who opposed to this and won his case in court. Which caused a storm of protest upto in your governmental circles. The judge in question was even threatened that he “could forget his carreer”. I didn’t follow the case up any further so I don’t know if this threat became actually reality Maybe you aren’t informed about this? Furhter: A Belgian friend of mine went for two to the USA and stayed there at the house of friends. She witnessed it in person that the children had to say this line in school. Or do you think a child that stands outside at the schoolyard while the US flag is displayed (an other thing we outsiders find an extremity) can say calmly: no I refuse to do this because I have to tear God into it and I don’t believe in God. And then leave the schoolyard to go inside and wait for the other to come. Don’t let me laugh. Salaam. A. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/127 "2003-08-17T20:40:32Z")
sorry, one word fails: my friend was for two years in the USA. I think time enough to witness one and an other. I can add that American friends of mine which I visit frequently are a good source of information. I can also add that I’m more in the USA and have more things running there then you maybe imagine. Since I’m not deaf and not blind, I consider myself as a good source of information to myself. Yet I don’t talk here about my impressions and observations only, which I also made clear already a few times. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/128 "2003-08-17T21:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*And no way that your president during his presidency only reffered to God the few time Walloon comes up with. > If that is the case then I must have and stil be watching and listening carefully tricked compilations of those few speeches = these words were and still are cutted and pasted/copied into all those I have heard and hear him make. > Which then has to be done by a variety of newschannels outside the USA in an ongoing complot to make him appear for what he is not. > Sorry, but I think that is a bit of an unbelievable scenario. > \*\* No one said, “during his presidency.” We said that in all his weekly radio addresses in 2003, and in all his formal and informal press conferences in 2003, he has mentioned God four times. You are free to present evidence to the contrary. Quote these speeches. Give us dates. And tell us to whom these speeches were given. **Present facts** , not generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/129 "2003-08-17T21:35:40Z")
Wallon, You didn’t mention that you talked about 2003-only. And even then you underestimate largely the amount of times the word God pops up whenever your president speaks in public. I don’t speak about “radio adresses or formal and informal press conferences” only. I speak about his public appearences in general in his function as president of the USA. “God bless America” is only one example, used as a sort of standard-ending sentence. This alone is however good enough to make people outside the USA feel as if your president considers America as God’s Choosen Nation (which is an idea many Americans do share) and claims that God’s blessing is America’s Right Only. Which is an insult to the rest of the world and a display of incredible arrogance. And a president leading his country into an invasion of a sovereign nation where thousands of innocents people died because of him, and ending the speach announcing the crime with such a sentence is absolutely horrifying to witness. The more because of the approval he got and still gets from so many Americans. Whenever he starts talking about Iraq and the soldiers there and the so called victory, God comes into his wordings. As if God in person gave His approval to go kill thousands of people. He also used the word **crusade** in one of his speeches and I don’t think I need to make a drawing how this was taken in the Middle East and far beyond? Or how he was criticized for that in other nations? I shall give you my opinion on the current US government and it is a very easy thing to do 1. extremely arrogant 2. extremely murderous 3. extremely ignorant in its arrogance 4. extremely fanatical in its arrogance 5. extremely stupid, in the sense that the word diplomacy is for them something that still needs to be invented and that getting informed about a nation before invading it and flatten it is something that is beyond their capabilities. This also due to their extreme arrogance. 6. extremely catastrophical for the world 7. extremely catastrophical for the USA itself 8. extremely lying and misleading, both to its own population and the world 9. extremely damaging to the US reputation worldwide, to the extent that respect and reputation scale is down to about non existent 10. extremely adding to the recruitment of what people like to paint as “Islamic terrorists” which I say are terrorist who declare they act for or according Islam. Which they of course don’t. This government made and is still making it extremely difficult for the next president and government to pick up the pieces and start the restauration. And if the US citizens re-elect this cosy little group then I wish them extremely much luck because they are going to need every luck they can get. Salaam. A. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/130 "2003-08-18T01:35:32Z")
Methinks the OP, in general, is extremely extreme. > [@](#): > > You didn’t mention that you talked about 2003-only. Yes he did. Here, once again, is the first sentence from his original post: > [@](#): > > President Bush makes a weekly radio address to the nation. **Since 2003 began** , he has made 31 of these addresses. It’s clear the OP simply doesn’t understand English well enough to respond coherently in debate here. I suggest he stop posting until he has a better command of the language. Seriously, though, it’s too late now, but this was thread was never anything but another of **Aldebaran’s** anti-American rants. The next time the OP feels the need to rant about the bad old 'murricans, would he please, please, please launch the thread in the Pit, _where it freaking belongs?_ ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/131 "2003-08-18T01:46:43Z")
EK, Yes, you are right. I overlooked the remark about 2003. Apologies to the poster for this. No, you are not right, this isn’t an **anti American** topic. This is questioning what happens in America and asking opinions and comments of others. How come you don’t read an OP it it’s whole? Because I write therein what it is about, no? You DO read English, don’t you? And your remark on my command of that language is considered as an intolerable personal attack (no you don’t insult, sorry for the disappointment this must be). If you want to comment on my language skills, do that in the BBQ. But I don’t think such personal extremely denegrating comments are even allowed in that weird place. Salaam. A. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/132 "2003-08-18T02:04:31Z")
Someone once referred to the rants of another poster with a similar ‘debating’ style as “like being harangued by Lewis Carroll”. I am getting much the same feeling here. Calm down, **A**. I think this subject is just about exhausted. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/133 "2003-08-18T02:46:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **Aldebaran** : … She witnessed it in person that the children had to say this line in school. Or do you think a child that stands outside at the schoolyard while the US flag is displayed (an other thing we outsiders find an extremity) can say calmly: no I refuse to do this because I have to tear God into it and I don’t believe in God. The big ruckus about saying the pledge is about nothing. A child is not required to say the pledge at all and does not have to explain why. An occasional wacko teacher may think that he or she can _make_ the child say it, but soon learns differently. That is an extremely rare occurance. I know. I was a teacher for twenty years. _No one_ ever said the pledge in my room. My students tried writing it on the board one time and they didn’t even know the real words to it. > [@](#): > > … are showing constantly to the rest of the world that the USA is a country where Christian fanatics rule and where government decisions are largely influenced by such fanatics and where the State leader is such a fanatic. Of the thousands upon thousands of political leaders in our country, only a few are very visible. Some (like Ashcroft) are fanatics. I believe that left to his own devices, he would be dangerous. _But he won’t be left to his own devices._ Our President is not a fanatic. He associates himself with religious fundamentalists. Not all fundamentalists are fanatics. Further, he is only one branch of the government. We have a system of check and balances. The Congress and the Supreme Court have equal power with the President. Congress has some fundamentalists but there are more non-fundamentalists. The Supreme Court has some Conservative judges and some moderate judges and some Liberal judges. Further, unlike Belgium, our government has not collapsed in the last fifteen or twenty years. We have a very stable system. It is being tested right now and the Americans are very aware of that. We don’t have to listen to Europeans to know that. If you read much of the political debates at SDMB, you know that too. About half of the Americans don’t like the way things are going either and many of us agree with some of the comments that you make about your own observations. But the nice thing about a stable government is that it survives all sorts of Presidencies. If we survived criminals (and we have), then we can survive a Methodist. President Bush will be gone from office in another five and a half years at most. With luck, it will be only a year and a half. We are a very vigilant people. We keep an eye on things and notice when there is a rotten apple. That is the reason that you have heard about the judge in Alabama. Your information originally came from America – not the other way around. Rest assured that we do get information from outside sources smuggled in every few months about what is going on in the rest of the world. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I can only tell you that I wouldn’t like to live in the USA where people claim to live in a secular nation while president and government and judges are that influenced by their religion that they constantly feel the urge to speak as if God is personally on their side. I am glad that I live in a country where they are free to be honest about their beliefs. From my understanding of the situation in Belgium, the country may be absorbed by the Netherlands and France. Those problems come from within the structure of your own government. That is the much greater threat to Belgium today _in my opinion._ I have known others to visit the USA a few times and think that they know all about it. That would be like visiting Belgium and thinking that you know all about Europe. It is laughable. You are going to have to have more personal and academic integrity if you wish to get that doctorate. And you will have to learn first how much you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/134 "2003-08-18T02:50:29Z")
**Monty** , I see my error in interpreting the comment about freemasons. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/135 "2003-08-18T03:05:33Z")
No problem, Zoe. I key on that kind of stuff, though, because "THE Masons founded the USA and that proves they’re out to take over the world is your garden-variety conspiracy-loon malarkey. I’ve heard it quite often. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/136 "2003-08-18T04:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*When it comes to religious fundamentalism people in the USA tend to look exclusively outside their own country as if such a thing is unknown to them. > > snip > > To give you some idea of how incredible such a thing comes across on non Americans: I can’t even imagine this to be a remote possibility in Belgium. The person in question would not only be ordered to leave his function. The whole country would declare him a clear lunatic and would be flat of laughter at the same time. > > Salaam. A \*\* If I were to divine the meaning of fundamentalism from your opening salvo I would have to say it was someone mentioning “God” in a sentence. You did not cite a premise in your opening sentence. The word fundamentalist in it’s pure form is an extension of the Protestant religion and it signifies a person who believes in the literal word of the bible. As it is used in the news it means zealot, someone adheres fanatically to a cause. You also don’t have an understanding of separation of church and state. We invented the concept and it wasn’t intended, despite the ruling of the US Supreme Court, to eliminate any mention of God in relation to government. One of the intentions of the founding fathers was to avoid establishment of any particular religion by a government agency. There is nothing you can cite that they intended to remove the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of God in government. As an example of government sponsored fundamentalism you used an Alabama judge’s display of the Ten Commandments. The judge may believe in the literal word of the Bible but he cannot pass judgment beyond the laws he has sworn to uphold. In short, he is not a zealot and he is not imposing his religion on the people before him in court. The fact that Belgians (according to you) have removed any reference to God from their court system is irrelevant to the process. Based on your past posts, you have taken a position of support for Islam. I believe you have taken offence in the use of the word “fundamentalist” in conjunction with Muslims. You cannot possibly make the connection to a “fundamentalist” (believers in the literal bible) and fundamentalist Muslims (Zealots who wage religious war on their belief that God wants them to). All Muslims are fundamentalists in that they believe in the Quran. It is fundamental that it be taught in its original language. That is different than religious “leaders” who stand in front of a crowd and yell “death to America”. Those “leaders” are zealots as are any people that follow their path of hatred. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/137 "2003-08-18T05:16:47Z")
If the government can “acknowledge” God, is it permissible for the government to “acknowledge” Jesus Christ? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/138 "2003-08-18T06:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Now that I think of it, since writing in English: doesn’t even the word HOLYday refers to the Christian religion? \*\* Yes, you are correct. Catholics celebrate Holydays. However, Americans celebrate national HOLIDAYS. It is spelled differently and pronounced differently. This is an easy mistake to make when English is a 2nd language. However, I can’t let it be used incorrectly in an argument. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/139 "2003-08-18T06:10:00Z")
Etymologically speaking [holiday](http://www.bartleby.com/61/94/H0239400.html) derives from the Middle English for “holy day”, and still has a secondary meaning of “religious feast day” or “holy day”, but in modern usage it mainly just means a day off from work. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434/140 "2003-08-18T06:40:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \* > Methinks the OP, in general, is extremely extreme. > > It’s clear the OP simply doesn’t understand English well enough to respond coherently in debate here. I suggest he stop posting until he has a better command of the language. > > Seriously, though, it’s too late now, but this was thread was never anything but another of **Aldebaran’s** anti-American rants. The next time the OP feels the need to rant about the bad old 'murricans, would he please, please, please launch the thread in the Pit, _where it freaking belongs?_ \*\* Personally, El\_Kabong, I think you need to take it down a notch. Making fun of someone for whom English is obviously a second language is extremely low-class. And just for the record, Bush refers to God all the time; I know because I have heard him do so. The quote you keep beating us over the head with is without a cite, and even if it _is_ true, it only proves he didn’t refer to God in most of his weekly radio addresses and press conferences. Well, he makes a lot more speeches than just those. So stop getting your jingoist panties in a bunch and accept that people have a right to their opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-fanatism-in-the-us-public-sector/195434.md?page=8)