Religious fanatism in the US public sector

If you’re insulted I’m perplexed. I read your posts That’s where I got your quote. I asked you a simple yes or no question that was a restatement (or extension) of what you said. If acting against the tenets of the Quran disqualify you as a Muslim does it not apply to Clerics who preach the same?

What is so difficult about answering the question. There is no “gotcha”. I would think it easy to answer. It is a simple acknowledgment that terrorists hiding behind Islam are not practicing the religion and therefore risk eternal damnation. You need only agree that you meant what you said and my extrapolation is a restatement of the obvious.

I accused you of nothing because you have answered nothing. I didn’t even accuse you of attacking Bush (verbally), merely that you dislike him. You are in good company on this board. Many people dislike him.

Your ability to read and write English is both a talent and a curse. You do not, and you never will understand the feelings behind the posts addressed to you. I’ve tried to shorten my sentences in hopes you will not read too much into them.

I admire your bilinqual skill but you need to understand that all languages have subtle meaning in how words are put together. As a member of a University, you should be aware of the pitfalls of communicating in another lanquage.

Your responses to my posts have been incredibly defensive if not outright bizzare. I would be insulted if I didn’t think you were confused in the translation. I would have entertained the idea I was confused by your response but you have stated clearly that you feel insulted.

Enjoy the day.

First of all I need to clarify something: I didn’t say I disqualify people (no matter who) as Muslims. I have no power to do so nor do I have any authority to do this. What you do is between you and God.

As for your question considering “clerics”.
Maybe you are confused in what you call “cleric” since in Islam there is in fact no clergy, meaning: there is no equivalent of Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, priests or other sort of hierarchy like for example in Christianity.

It is true that some scholars have more credibility and/or more influence then others. From which I gave the example when I referred to the Al Azhar being since centuries considered to have the most influencal authority in Sunni Islam.
This doesn’t imply that you have an obligation to follow their advice or judgements considering the religion, like for example in Christianity where the clergy is ordered to follow the rules and the Christians are considered to follow what the clergy declares to be the rules.

Islam is a very personal religion. People ask scholars for advice and scholars give advice (this can go about everything you can think of) and of course they hope that their advice is followed. Yet they have no power to command that they should be followed.
(We leave here countries where the scholars in fact rule the State out of the picture… I’m talking about the core principles of Islam)

So if tomorrow I hear the Imam of a mosque nearby my home declare that I have to kill every non Muslim passing by, then he can say that until his breathing stops, there is no obligation for me to even listen to him in the first place.
I think however that I would go inside and tell him in a polite way to go to a hospital in order to have his vocal cords removed…But that is an other issue.

Well I surely would think they risk what you refer to as eternal damnation.
Yet I can’t declare them to be doomed.
There is a saying every Muslim adheres to very strictly, namely: Only God can judge because only God knows what is in people’s heart.

My reading ability of the English language is a thousand times better then my writing skills, which are hindered because of the fact that this is a language I never studied. But equally because of my limited vocabulary. And not in the least because of my precious birthgift dyslexia. It is a gift that keeps you awake, yet it tends to influence my writing (and reading) of every language that uses the roman characters (I think you call that Latin script).

But you are completely right that when you don’t master a language you aren’t able to distinct its nuances.
The use of short sentences by people adressing themselves to me are a blessing to me for all these reasons.

Yes, I did feel insulted because I read it as if you were sort of convinced that I support people calling for the murder of innocents and that you were trying to have me make some sort of statement against it. While being convinced that I wouldn’t do it in the first place.

So I readily admit that I went in defense mode. (It has to do with the “welcome” I received and still receive here by some other members.)

I would appreciate if you would be so kind to accept my apologies since clearly I misunderstood your intentions completely.

As for the bizar thing: I’m known to be the excentric lunatic of the family… Since you don’t know me and thus aren’t used to my lunatic humour mixed with grains of cynism and to my writing style which can fluctuate between almost good and completely incoherent… It doesn’t come as a surprize that you find me a bizar creature.
But I’m completely innocent and extremely harmless.

Have a nice day.
Salaam. A.

Aldebaran: I’ve no idea why you’re studiously ignoring my questions to you; however, if it’s because you think I’m that other poster monty2(something or the other), I’m not.

MeBuckner: The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama can make such a declaration when acting in his own behalf and not when performing his office. In other words: As a private person, he can make that declaration. As the Chief Justice, he can’t.

Monty,

In my opinion you posted a question at page 4 about my occupations and I answered it. Then you posted some strange remarks and I answered on these too.

So you did get your answers except for the previous post and the one before that, which aren’t answerable since I have no idea what you are talking about.

Salaam. A

No, Aldebaran, you didn’t.

Well, instead of posting over and over again this accusation it would be a lot more productive if you pointed out whatever it is that consitutes your complaint, problem, whatever.

Since I have no idea what you are talking about. As you could easily derive from my reply.

Salaam. A.

Complaint: You ignored the question I actually put to you.
Problem: You pretend you answered when you, in fact, did not.

That’s all I was saying, actually.

I think it’s an important distinction.

Monty, I tried to have a civilized conversation yet you make it very clear that you aren’t interested in any sort of attempt to have a civilized conversation.

So unless you clarify yourself about what on earth you are talking about, I have to give up on you. Because all you seem enjoying to do is repeating yourself without giving any substance to your repeated repeating yourself.

Sorry, but replying on such is a waist of my time.

Have a nice day.

Salaam. A.

I’ve been patiently waiting, as have very many other posters, Aldebaran, for you to actually articulate something. It’s quite amusing to me that you just ascribed to me your very own posting methodology.

Oh well, if that is all you have to say… It isn’t exactly something impressive. And you could have said it earlier and spare the website some space.
Salaam. A

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aldebaran *
**First of all I need to clarify something: I didn’t say I disqualify people (no matter who) as Muslims. I have no power to do so nor do I have any authority to do this. What you do is between you and God.

As for your question considering “clerics”.
Maybe you are confused in what you call “cleric” since in Islam there is in fact no clergy, meaning: there is no equivalent of Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, priests or other sort of hierarchy like for example in Christianity. **

I understand your “disqualifier”, having had brief question/answer meetings with Muslim scholars. I use the term “cleric” as a generic term for a religious leader because, IMO, Islamic Scholars act as such. Your point about scholars having no linear hierarchy have been a main focus of some of my discussions. I would go so far as to suggest Mohammed intended such a system to avoid the power structure found in Christendom. I may start a thread on it later in regards to religious hierarchy.
**
It is true that some scholars have more credibility and/or more influence then others. From which I gave the example when I referred to the Al Azhar being since centuries considered to have the most influencal authority in Sunni Islam.
This doesn’t imply that you have an obligation to follow their advice or judgements considering the religion, like for example in Christianity where the clergy is ordered to follow the rules and the Christians are considered to follow what the clergy declares to be the rules.

Islam is a very personal religion. People ask scholars for advice and scholars give advice (this can go about everything you can think of) and of course they hope that their advice is followed. Yet they have no power to command that they should be followed.
(We leave here countries where the scholars in fact rule the State out of the picture… I’m talking about the core principles of Islam)
**
So far you have affirmed everything I have learned about Islam.
**
So if tomorrow I hear the Imam of a mosque nearby my home declare that I have to kill every non Muslim passing by, then he can say that until his breathing stops, there is no obligation for me to even listen to him in the first place.
I think however that I would go inside and tell him in a polite way to go to a hospital in order to have his vocal cords removed…But that is an other issue.**
Interesting choice of words. Was the last sentence a loose translation of an ethnic expression?

**
Well I surely would think they risk what you refer to as eternal damnation.
Yet I can’t declare them to be doomed.
There is a saying every Muslim adheres to very strictly, namely: Only God can judge because only God knows what is in people’s heart.
**
Well, I had to practically beat it out of you. I know you can’t say Mullah so-and-so is blasphemous because you risk an international incident (a la Pat Roberts infamous “Muslims are worse than Nazis” speech). I just wanted you to separate the religion from the terrorist. The closest American example I can give is the Ku Klux Klan. It was a very powerful group in the United States at one time and they used religion (Christianity) to justify terrorism.
**
My reading ability of the English language is a thousand times better then my writing skills, which are hindered because of the fact that this is a language I never studied. But equally because of my limited vocabulary. And not in the least because of my precious birthgift dyslexia. It is a gift that keeps you awake, yet it tends to influence my writing (and reading) of every language that uses the roman characters (I think you call that Latin script).**

I disagree. Your vocabulary is probably better than a majority of Americans and I’ll trade you your dyslexia for my inability to pick up a 2nd language.

**
But you are completely right that when you don’t master a language you aren’t able to distinct its nuances.
The use of short sentences by people adressing themselves to me are a blessing to me for all these reasons.
Yes, I did feel insulted because I read it as if you were sort of convinced that I support people calling for the murder of innocents and that you were trying to have me make some sort of statement against it. While being convinced that I wouldn’t do it in the first place.

So I readily admit that I went in defense mode. (It has to do with the “welcome” I received and still receive here by some other members.)

I would appreciate if you would be so kind to accept my apologies since clearly I misunderstood your intentions completely.**

My apologies as well. .You are correct that I was trying to extract a statement from you but it was not meant to separate you from terrorism. It was meant to separate terrorism from Islam. I know it seems an obvious statement but it never makes the news.
**
As for the bizar thing: I’m known to be the excentric lunatic of the family… Since you don’t know me and thus aren’t used to my lunatic humour mixed with grains of cynism and to my writing style which can fluctuate between almost good and completely incoherent… It doesn’t come as a surprize that you find me a bizar creature.**

** But I’m completely innocent and extremely harmless.* *

That actually made me laugh out loud. I may borrow that line in the future. You have a better handle on the nuances of the language than I gave you credit for.

omnis natura Deum loquitur

That is an interesting suggestion. Fact is that Muhammed even never wanted people to write down his own decisions, be it on political or religious matters. The hadieth were transmitted orally until there were that many that they became uncountable. At that point nobody could be even sure about what was a real story and what was fantasy.
That is why we poor idiots who make Islam our studyfield have now shelves of headache provoking books in order to gain some certainty that a tradition can be considered to be an acceptable one. Of course I’m very grateful by this immense work done by our ancestors…Yet there are moments that I tend to think they must have been mad as well. It is however a consolation that it is the fault of my genetical code. The study of Isnad and related not only informes you on the Isnad = the chain of transmittors in order to see if a hadieth can be considered as reliable (with gradations in that reliability as well); you can find the most funny stories about the individuals themselves, their habits and their personal lives.

No no… That is what I would do when hearing such a lunatic. I would even offer to get him safely dumped in the emergency room and pay for the operation. I think that would be enough to convince him to shut up (please admire my swift adaption to a common use of the English language) for the rest of his days.

It is known in my family that I risk an international incident about everywhere I come unguarded. That is why nobody at home even suspects that I dwell over message boards. Let be American ones.

I was convinced I did this… But as I said: my writing style asks a lot of adaptation from an unsuspecting audience.

The difference is that they stayed at home for the butchering. But then… The means of transportation weren’t all that great at the time. I wonder if the KKK these days exports its product… It would be interesting to find a lunatic student ready to do a research. But I can’t think of one where I am…

I have ineradicable doubts about my vocabulary being better then the one of even a minor minority among the Americans…
But you can have my twinbrother Dyslex if he agrees to leave me… On which I have the same doubts. There are still some of my teachers locked away in the madhouse since the period nobody realized that I enjoyed the presence of Dyslex in my life.

By the way: Learning a language isn’t all that difficult you know.
As a child I did it by reading comics, then the same story in a translation. Next step is reading books, first in your own language, then its translation. Once you start thinking in that language, you are on the right path. Of course some grammar books and a dictionary are a great help… That was one of my greatest discoveries.

Say for yourself: What dramatic effect do you create in simply calling a terrorist a terrorist ?.. We need to gain some understanding for the poor media (and Hollywood) and their financial problems. Islam is the current goldmine.
There is an old saying in my late mother’s language: “Het is niet al goud wat blinkt” = freely translated: Not everything that glitters is gold.
But we can’t expect innocent readers and listeners and viewers to distinct the fake glitter, when the dreamfactory goldmine “Islamic terrorism” is sold to them as the real thing.
Same for certain well known politicians… Why should they leave such a good selling product untouched?

Since I threw it on the internet I have some feeling that I can’t claim the intellectual rights… So I guess you can copy that without even giving a footnote. The advantage is that you do it completely at your own risk when it comes to your reputation.

Salaam. A