# Religious liberty of public employee vs. same-sex marriage rights. How to reconcile? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876 "2015-06-30T16:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/321 "2015-07-02T21:34:37Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Bigot is neither a slur nor a perjorative. It is a noun. A person who holds bigoted views is a bigot. It doesn’t matter if they don’t want to hear it. It doesn’t matter if they get angry. It doesn’t matter if being told that they are bigots causes them to refuse to reflect on their positions. If the bigot boots fit, then they get to wear them. > > I mean, obviously it’s not going to cause them to reflect. If they had any sort of self-awareness or willingness to reconsider, they wouldn’t be bigots in the first place. Obstenance and ignorance are the hallmarks of bigotry. It is perfectly in character for obstenant and ignorant people to double down on their obstenance and ignorance. > > But you seem to be operating under the idea that we must refrain from pointing out when we observe bigots behaving bigotedly because it will cause them to cling more tightly to their bigotry. I disagree. In reality, I don’t think people will stop being bigots due to anything other people say or do. Bigots are going to bigot - and frankly, I don’t care if they bigot. I just want the bigots to bigot quietly in their homes where we, as a society, don’t have to put up with their nastyass world views. > > Therefore, I believe that the chief benefit to calling a spade, a spade, in this situation, is that it conveys to the bigot that the rest of us are tired of his bigot breathe and want him to keep his mouth shut in our vicinity. It won’t change the bigot’s worldview but that wasn’t in the cards anyway. The good news is that bigots are ignorant cowards and are unlikely to stand up to a crowd of people honestly telling > > Damn, do I so not give a tiny rat’s buttcrack if a bigot gets angry when correctly identified as a bigot. I just thought I would quote this in case anyone missed it. **Merneith** , you have put this so very well. I wish all those who think we should just be nice to the poor stupid bigots could read this and truly get it. I know they won’t, but I can wish. Thanks for writing this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/322 "2015-07-02T21:37:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > It would be a good cite, except it doesn’t say anything a all about a stay of the decision. It’s a deadline for an appeal. > > Similarly, anyone convicted of a crime has a limited time in which to file an appeal. There is no provision which grants that the sentence must not be started until the appeal is filed. A judge might choose to grant a stay in those circumstance, but it’s not a given. I don’t recall any judge issuing such a stay. **Iggy**? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/323 "2015-07-02T21:42:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t recall any judge issuing such a stay. **Iggy**? Nor I. I am not a lawyer. Was just explaining where the 25 day number came from. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/324 "2015-07-02T21:45:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I meant the more general public forum. No one around here has said anything that would want me to call him or her a bigot. > But you missed my point. While I agree that it is counter-productive to call people uncertain about SSM bigots, or even people who say it makes them uncomfortable bigots, if we don’t call the real bigots what they are, we are in a sense giving a message that what they say is okay. It’s just a matter of opinion. It was perfectly okay to call 1963 vintage George Wallace and Ross Barnett and Orville Fabus bigots. They said things, in public, that earned them the title. I have already noted in this thread that I have no problem with calling out people like Santorum and Robertson as bigots. They are. They are loud about their prejudices. They have influence on a certain number of people. I believe that calling your next door neighbor who has shared barbecues with you, shoveled the snow off the walk of his little-old-lady neighbor, watched your kids, and picked up your mail while you were on vacation a bigot is counterproductive. I have never seen such an action result in a change in mind or behavior. No one on this thread has provided a single bit of evidence that such behavior has had a beneficial effect. No one has provided evidence that the news media has routinely referred to the large body of opponents of SSM as bigots, (as opposed to calling Limbaugh or Hannity bigots–rare enough, itself), or that anyone has routinely used that term in a forum where the audience was not already pro-SSM. I will not attack people who insist on using the term as a general label, but no one has provided any reason for me to join them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/325 "2015-07-02T21:47:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, obviously not. But that’s not what anyone (except, apparently, you and **tom** ) is talking about. We’re not talking about change on the individual level, but on the societal. Calling out anti-gay hate and discrimination shapes the public narrative that these are bad things. “Bigot” is a powerful word, and successfully associating that word with the anti-marriage movement significantly damaged their brand in the public eye. Have very many fifty year olds been convinced to change their homophobic views because society has started branding them bigots? I know for a fact that at least a few have, but more important than that are the fifteen year olds, who are just starting to formulate their opinions and world views, and who are looking at a society that’s increasingly hostile towards anti-gay discrimination. I think that’s absolutely had an effect on the overwhelming acceptance of gay rights among Millenials. And yet, the changes that have occurred have happened without using the term bigot in the MSM or directed at large groups of people where they would hear it used. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/326 "2015-07-02T21:48:55Z")
We are talking about describing a clerk that defies the law and refuses to issue a marriage license to a same sex couple as a bigot. Not yelling. Not “calling someone out”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/327 "2015-07-02T21:55:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We are talking about describing a clerk that defies the law and refuses to issue a marriage license to a same sex couple as a bigot. > Not yelling. > Not “calling someone out”. Actually, “we” are not. A claim was made that accusations of bigotry had helped to get the country where it is today. i have challenged that claim and am still awaiting any evidence that it might be true. it is a sub-thread in this larger thread. If you would like to call a clerk who refuses to issue a marriage license “bigot,” that is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/328 "2015-07-02T22:06:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, “we” are not. A claim was made that accusations of bigotry had helped to get the country where it is today. i have challenged that claim and am still awaiting any evidence that it might be true. it is a sub-thread in this larger thread. If you would like to call a clerk who refuses to issue a marriage license “bigot,” that is fine. In 2015, if you are still against SSM probably nothing is going to change your mind. Ridicule and condemnation is kind of like last resort measure. I don’t recommend beginning a conversation about SSM by calling someone a bigot, but, if they persist strongly in giving the standard litany of bigoted arguments against SSM, then I’m not going to feel bad if someone loses patience and calls them a bigot. I don’t like the fact that some people are not going to change their mind and will allways oppose SSM. If ridicule and contempt is the only thing that will silence them then that is what we need to do. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/329 "2015-07-02T22:26:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > In 2015, if you are still against SSM probably nothing is going to change your mind. Based on history, you are wrong. Attitudes by whites (generally), have improved since the heyday of the Civil Rights movement. Rather more people are open to inter-racial marriage than were open to it in 1967, (and while some of that is due to older people dying off and younger ones growing up without that prejudice, there are a lot of people alive, today, who would have opposed it in 1967 and do not oppose it today). As SSM becomes more common and as the other fights for gay rights, (workplace, lodging, etc.) continue, there are probably quite a few people who currently oppose SSM who will come to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/330 "2015-07-02T22:29:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Based on history, you are wrong. Attitudes by whites (generally), have improved since the heyday of the Civil Rights movement. Rather more people are open to inter-racial marriage than were open to it in 1967, (and while some of that is due to older people dying off and younger ones growing up without that prejudice, there are a lot of people alive, today, who would have opposed it in 1967 and do not oppose it today). As SSM becomes more common and as the other fights for gay rights, (workplace, lodging, etc.) continue, there are probably quite a few people who currently oppose SSM who will come to accept it. Based on reality, you are wrong. I know lots of people who use the N word almost at will behind closed doors but would never do it in public unless they were around other people they knew were racist too. Nothing is ever going to change these people’s mind. The fact that lots of people do change does not alter the fact that a slim margin or racists will NEVER change. ETA: If social pressure, ridicule and condemnation is applied to people who are “slow” to change but who “eventually” change, well, good, lets speed up the process. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/331 "2015-07-02T22:30:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Rather more people are open to inter-racial marriage than were open to it in 1967, (and while some of that is due to older people dying off and younger ones growing up without that prejudice, there are a lot of people alive, today, who would have opposed it in 1967 and do not oppose it today). It’s a good thing no one ever called those people racist! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/332 "2015-07-02T22:52:49Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s a good thing no one ever called those people racist! More likely, the ones who were called racist are the ones that Robert163 keeps running into who are mad about being called names. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/333 "2015-07-02T22:59:20Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Based on reality, you are wrong. I know lots of people who use the N word almost at will behind closed doors but would never do it in public unless they were around other people they knew were racist too. Nothing is ever going to change these people’s mind. The fact that lots of people do change does not alter the fact that a slim margin or racists will NEVER change. > > ETA: If social pressure, ridicule and condemnation is applied to people who are “slow” to change but who “eventually” change, well, good, lets speed up the process. Sorry. You are cherry-picking anecdotal data and trying to expand to generalities from that. I never claimed that racism has died. I noted, correctly, that the attitudes of many (not all) people have changed in regard to race. Look at overall numbers of people who would accept inter-racial marriage, people who would not object to a black co-worker or neighbor. Those numbers are up, substantially, from the 1960s and they include many people whose attitudes have actually changed. Your claim was that anyone who held an anti-SSM position, today, would absolutley hold that position and never change. Certainly, many opponents of SSM will hold to those views until their deaths. But a claim that no one will change their views, (particularly in light of the fact that over 50% of the country already changed their views in the last 10 years), is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/334 "2015-07-02T23:04:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, in trying to win straight people over to your cause you think it’s not helpful to get advice from straight people. That makes a lot of sense. Most people currently in the LGBT human rights movement know what Miller is referring to - the tendency of straight people to “advise” the LGB community “why don’t you just protest in quiet dignity so I can enjoy my beer?” Or “advising” my people “can’t you just be a girl on the **inside**?” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/335 "2015-07-02T23:05:20Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Transgender people and cross dresses creep me out. I would hope that if i got to know some of them, to have exposure and get to know them, that my reaction would change. Thanks…I think? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/336 "2015-07-03T01:00:21Z")
Calling bigots bigots seems to have a better track record than treating gay people as second-class citizens or telling them to stop being gay. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Otherwise, it’s nice to see, again, the face of tolerance I don’t claim to be tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/337 "2015-07-03T01:02:48Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Most people currently in the LGBT human rights movement know what Miller is referring to - the tendency of straight people to “advise” the LGB community “why don’t you just protest in quiet dignity so I can enjoy my beer?” Or “advising” my people “can’t you just be a girl on the **inside**?” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I wasn’t giving that advice, so… whatever. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/338 "2015-07-03T01:08:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Sorry. You are cherry-picking anecdotal data and trying to expand to generalities from that. > I never claimed that racism has died. I noted, correctly, that the attitudes of many (not all) people have changed in regard to race. Look at overall numbers of people who would accept inter-racial marriage, people who would not object to a black co-worker or neighbor. Those numbers are up, substantially, from the 1960s and they include many people whose attitudes have actually changed. > Your claim was that anyone who held an anti-SSM position, today, would absolutley hold that position and never change. Certainly, many opponents of SSM will hold to those views until their deaths. But a claim that no one will change their views, (particularly in light of the fact that over 50% of the country already changed their views in the last 10 years), is nonsense. One of the things to understand here is that most of us never really spent much time thinking about gays, back in the days when most gays were in the closet. It wasn’t some difficult question we wrestled with. It’s only recently that many of us have had to think about it at all. I don’t remember exactly, but I’m pretty sure my first response to the idea of SSM was… are you kidding me??? It made no sense to me. But once it became an issue, and after thinking about, it made total sense, and I’m 100% in support of full gay rights. But I didn’t get that way because someone called me a bigot, and I can’t imagine that being of any help at all, other them generating a feeling of resentment towards the name caller at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/339 "2015-07-03T01:21:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wasn’t giving that advice, so… whatever. You have said you believe that, in the wake of _Obergefell_, same-sex couples should not expect to get marriage licenses. You may not have said “protest quietly” but it’s the same general theme. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876/340 "2015-07-03T01:25:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And yet, the changes that have occurred have happened without using the term bigot in the MSM or directed at large groups of people where they would hear it used. [Here’s an article about some homophobic remarks made by a Houston city councilwoman.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-stanford/progress-in-san-antonio_b_3777551.html) Towards the end, there’s this bit: “When an aide cautions that ‘the newspaper will get you’ if she reveals what she really thinks, she answers, ‘That’s why I never would say that outside, because they’d kill me.’” Now, why would she think that, if nobody ever publicly associated homophobia and bigotry? [A Slate article, titled "What do homophobic bigots really think?](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/anti_gay_bigotry_online_analyzing_homophobic_comments_can_disarm_the_hate_.html) posted over a picture of anti-marriage protestors. [Another HuffPo piece, titled “Giving Sexual Bigotry its Due”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-wolfman/giving-sexual-bigotry-its-due_b_3574343.html) [One from the other side, from a religious website, arguing against the idea that opposition to gay rights makes you a bigot.](http://www.marketfaith.org/are-christians-really-bigots-and-homophobes/) I can’t imagine how they got the idea that it might be homophobic, given the total information blackout the Gay Cabal has instituted on expressing the idea that opposing gay rights is bigotry. [Andrew Sullivan argues that Alec Baldwin is a bigot for calling someone a “cocksucking fag.”](http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/11/22/dont-judge-a-baldwin-by-his-outburst/) [Ta-nehisi Coates has Sullivan’s back on that one.](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/11/yeah-alec-baldwin-really-is-a-bigot/281911/) [A lengthy bit about Chik-Fil-A, where the author explicitly offers “bigoted asshole” as a synonym for “homophobia,” both in the context of discussing Dan Cathy’s opposition to marriage.](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/chick_fil_a_controversy_why_dan_cathy_s_statements_are_dangerous_.html) [The top hit I get when I Google “santorum” is about Dan Savage’s successful rebranding of the name to mean “the frothy mixture of feces and lube that results from anal sex.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_%22santorum%22_neologism) [Speaking of Dan, here’s a Salon article where he expresses the idea that homophobia will not end with the success (still a couple years out, at that point) of the SSM movement.](http://www.salon.com/2013/07/20/dan_savage_women_whove_had_abortions_need_to_be_out_about_it/) [And Dan again, explicitly calling Mitt Romney a homophobe.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/dan-savage-mitt-romney-homophobe-_n_1904251.html) Honestly, I could do a whole page here of nothing but Dan Savage demonstrating you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, but I’ll move on in the interest of variety. [Here’s a _fantastically_ insulting video from a Catholic group (surprise!) that attempts to dress up opposition to marriage in the language of people coming out of the closet.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6PPk2NOQXs) Includes a specific distancing of anti-marriage attitudes from the term “bigot,” which is bizarre, considering that there’s apparently no way this person could have been aware that gay people consider anti-marriage attitudes to be a form of bigotry. [And here’s the parody of it, which analogizes the opposition to marriage in the first video, to support for racial segregation.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1UxAH9FMY0) [Here’s an article calling Chik-Fil-A CEO Dan Cathy’s anti-marriage stance homophobic.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/17/chick-fil-a-dan-cathy-gay-marriage_n_4980682.html) Now lets hear from the queer on the street: [Comparison of anti-marriage positions to segregation.](http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/same-sex-marriage-protest-7100133.jpg) [I don’t speak French, but I’ve got a pretty good idea what “l’homophobie” means.](http://rt.com/files/news/france-gay-marriage-protest-955/support-same-sex-marriage-counter-demonstration-599.jpg) [Another protestor, carrying a sign rejecting the idea that religious faith excuses homophobia.](http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1900-4/photos/1364156456-french-hold-antigay-marriage-protest-in-london_1903864.jpg) [Here’s a woman calling out opposition to marriage as a form of hate.](http://ww2.gazette.net/images/2008_1119/protestk111908w_rgbb.jpg) [Going international, here’s a gay rights protest showing Putin as Hitler.](http://static3.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/2500-9/photos/1378232219-love-russia-hate-homophobia-protest-in-london_2575749.jpg) [“Separate Church and H8.”](http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2014/11/04/straight_people_should_leave_homophobic_churches/83592833-hundreds-of-supporters-of-same-sex-marriage-march-for.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg) Since you appear to have been living under a rock for the last thirty years, that last one is a reference to [NoH8](http://www.noh8campaign.com/), which was organized to counter the anti-marriage Prop. 8 initiative in California. [No H8 bumperstickers were a popular item for a while there.](https://www.google.com/search?q=no+h8&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4eCVVe-hJY2sogTe6aSIBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1543&bih=793#tbm=isch&q=no+h8+bumpersticker&imgrc=yFooSrcgpKHykM%3A) Now, are there any other absolutely fucking asinine assertions you need debunked, or are you done wasting everyone’s time here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-liberty-of-public-employee-vs-same-sex-marriage-rights-how-to-reconcile/723876.md?page=18)