# Religious people who are being dicks in the Christopher Hitchens thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413 "2011-12-16T15:19:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/101 "2011-12-16T19:45:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When I’m dead, I won’t be able to care what anyone says. BECAUSE I WILL BE DEAD! Gone. Outta here. Nonexistent. Say whatever the hell you want. Funerals, eulogies and wakes are for the living. I’m having my wake before I die. Waiting until afterwards is entirely pointless. I would prefer to be dead for the boring stuff like funeral and eulogies though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/102 "2011-12-16T19:49:16Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > “If they did not believe Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” You don’t really believe that, do you? I mean, not the Jesus stuff in general - just that specific quote. You really don’t think there’s a material difference between hearing one (out of hundreds and hundreds) cultural myth, and seeing a man who was demonstrably dead suddenly rise from the grave without any medical intervention, well past the point where he could conceivably have been misdiagnosed as dead? I mean, I don’t agree with the OP pretty much at all, and as an atheist, I’m generally flattered when someone says they’ll pray for me,\* but that’s an incredibly weak argument. I’d expect a lot better from Jesus. [sub]\*There are exceptions.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/103 "2011-12-16T19:51:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is a difference between praying for them because they suffered greatly and were murdered, and praying for them because they were damned for all eternity for being Jews, don’t you think? Yes, I do. I admit I don’t remember the details of this nuns controversy and I had a feeling it was going to turn out to be something more like this. 😉 I admit I’m not sure how to feel about things like this: the nonsense Mormon baptisms of the dead, praying for people who are already gone, hosting seances and saying they’ve changed their minds about the afterlife. Certainly it’s offensive in that it disregards the opinions of the dead or claims they’ve changed their minds, and that that’s meaningful. It also does no harm to the deceased since they’re gone and it’s pretty silly on its face. It turns the whole thing into a ridiculous game, and it trivializes their own errand and beliefs because it’s so absurd and childish. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/104 "2011-12-16T19:54:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You don’t really believe that, do you? I mean, not the Jesus stuff in general - just that specific quote. **Skammer**'splained that in [Post #73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14572986&postcount=73), which I assume you missed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/105 "2011-12-16T19:54:35Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Is it ridiculous to expect the atheist to refrain from posting something to the effect of, “Sorry to hear this person is gone, but I’m sure he’ll be surprised to find that there is no afterlife and he’s just worm food now”? Because IMO that’s pretty much equivalent to posting “God have mercy on his soul” about a known atheist, i.e., using the person’s death as a platform to express your own personal beliefs and how they are superior to the beliefs of the person who has died. Not appropriate and kind of dickish. This strikes me as a ridiculously stupid comparison. I don’t believe in an afterlife. I’d really like to be wrong about that, because I’m not terribly keen on not existing, but I just don’t see any evidence for it. I mean, sure, the idea that there’s this eternal being who loves us unconditionally and will make sure we spend all eternity in perfect happiness is basically childish wish-fulfilment, but it would be pretty fucking cool if it were true. If folks like **Skammer** want to see me cut in on a piece of that action, I really don’t have any objection to it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/106 "2011-12-16T19:54:59Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > **Skammer**'splained that in [Post #73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14572986&postcount=73), which I assume you missed. I did. I was not impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/107 "2011-12-16T19:55:30Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > As an atheist, > [@bup](#): > > **Slithy’s** with Jesus now. Now that’s funny right there. All the butthurtedness in this thread is making me sad. I feel a prayer is in order. Oh Great and Merciful Lord of Butts, please extend your mighty butt of healing towards these butts which are hurting so. Show them your ever loving butt of compassion so that their hurtedness may subside and their butts may find peace once again. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/108 "2011-12-16T19:57:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This strikes me as a ridiculously stupid comparison. I don’t believe in an afterlife. I’d really like to be wrong about that, because I’m not terribly keen on not existing, but I just don’t see any evidence for it. I mean, sure, the idea that there’s this eternal being who loves us unconditionally and will make sure we spend all eternity in perfect happiness is basically childish wish-fulfilment, but it would be pretty fucking cool if it were true. If folks like **Skammer** want to see me cut in on a piece of that action, I really don’t have any objection to it. Perhaps if I felt that either Shodan or Pandabear were being really sincere with their wishes, I’d feel similar to you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/109 "2011-12-16T20:04:28Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Perhaps if I felt that either Shodan or Pandabear were being really sincere with their wishes, I’d feel similar to you. Your post didn’t single out those two, though - you were talking about the sentiment in general. And while it’s probably a safe assumption that **Shodan** is being insincere every time he posts, I don’t think that should be considered a reflection on Christianity in general. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/110 "2011-12-16T20:08:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You don’t really believe that, do you? I mean, not the Jesus stuff in general - just that specific quote. You really don’t think there’s a material difference between hearing one (out of hundreds and hundreds) cultural myth, and seeing a man who was demonstrably dead suddenly rise from the grave without any medical intervention, well past the point where he could conceivably have been misdiagnosed as dead? > > I mean, I don’t agree with the OP pretty much at all, and as an atheist, I’m generally flattered when someone says they’ll pray for me,\* but that’s an incredibly weak argument. I’d expect a lot better from Jesus. > > [sub]\*There are exceptions.[/sub] No, those are fair points. There is a difference between listening to handed down tradition and witnessing a literal resurrection. Usually the parable is actually understood to be making a point about having concern for the poor, and the dangers of wealth, and not really a window into the nature of the afterlife. “They will not believe even if someone were to rise from the dead” is a literary device that forshadows Jesus’ own resurrection, which indeed failed to convince most of the populace. Honestly I only quoted it because I was given the setup, so I provided the traditional response. Like if someone had posted “Does anybody really know what time it is?” and I said “Does anybody really care?” I’m not making an existential point about the nature of time, I’m participating in a call-and-response. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/111 "2011-12-16T20:11:24Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Honestly I only quoted it because I was given the setup, so I provided the traditional response. Like if someone had posted “Does anybody really know what time it is?” and I said “Does anybody really care?” I’m not making an existential point about the nature of time, I participating in a call-and-response. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/112 "2011-12-16T20:15:53Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > “They will not believe even if someone were to rise from the dead” is a literary device that forshadows Jesus’ own resurrection, which indeed failed to convince most of the populace. Even given that the Bible is accurate in its reporting, most of the populace never saw the Resurrection to begin with, and the fact that his own followers didn’t recognize him at first probably cast further doubt on the story. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/113 "2011-12-16T20:30:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Even given that the Bible is accurate in its reporting, most of the populace never saw the Resurrection to begin with, and the fact that his own followers didn’t recognize him at first probably cast further doubt on the story. But it’s still a nice literary element. Jesus tells a story that ends with the observation that people don’t want to believe, and will refuse to believe even if someone comes back from the dead. Then not long later, Jesus makes exactly this demonstration. I’m just talking about the text, not the historicity of the event. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/114 "2011-12-16T20:46:32Z")
It’s just this sort of thing that interrupts every discussion about the theatrical merits of _Our American Cousin_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/115 "2011-12-16T20:55:48Z")
You have to respect the balls, at least, of a dude who [criticizes the morality of Mother Theresa.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/116 "2011-12-16T20:55:56Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > \[Christians] are going to react out of what is their lived reality and probably refer to the afterlife. To expect otherwise just seems… irrational. It’s the same as expecting an atheist to say, ‘‘Oh, Jerry Falwell is dead? God rest his soul. I’ll pray for his family members.’’ That would be ridiculous, right? FWIW, I have indeed sent religious cards to religious family members on several occasions. And in at least one case where someone asked me to pray, I said I would and I did. The point is that the cards were for them, not for me. And prayer doesn’t seem like a major issue to me, anymore than yelling at someone who cut me off in traffic. They’re never going to hear me and unless they happen to look over and see the spit splattering on the window, they won’t even know I’m angry. Of course the person I prayed for will never know if I did one way or another anyway, but it felt appropriate to follow through. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/117 "2011-12-16T20:59:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You have to respect the balls, at least, of a dude who [criticizes the morality of Mother Theresa.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html) Are you talking about **Eve**? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/118 "2011-12-16T21:08:03Z")
I’d love to know the redeeming qualities of Falwell that need to be defended so. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/119 "2011-12-16T21:49:22Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **Slithy’s** with Jesus now. No, I just stepped out for a quick bowl of pus with St. Catherine of Sienna! I liked **Skammer’s** comeback to my post. Bible literacy is cultural literacy, and I respect that. I also respect not religion, but religious people. As a teenager I worked in a Catholic cemetery and buried hundreds of people, and tended their graves, and was considerate of the people who loved them who were still alive Later I was a hospice volunteer. I sat with dying Christians, a Hundu on one occasion, and a Buddhist on another. I supported whatever religious belief they wanted, and if they found support in it, I won’t say it was actually a self-deceptive burden. If I’d been Christopher Hitchens’ hospice worker, and he wanted to keep smoking and drinking for comfort, I’d have supported that, too. So unless you e done more for religion, purely out of a belief in respect and kindness as values in themselves, than I have; but instead gauge human decency in terms of being offended on God’s behalf over a post on a message board’s free-fire zone, then fuck you. (which is what I couldn’t say to the poster who pulled my post from here into the genteel forum) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413/120 "2011-12-16T21:54:44Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Are you talking about **Eve**? **Eve’s** balls would be rather a sore subject . . . 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-people-who-are-being-dicks-in-the-christopher-hitchens-thread/606413.md?page=7)