# Religious recruiting **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847 "2000-12-03T19:05:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/41 "2000-12-05T21:55:28Z")
LOL…if I rip it out of the book, Esprix, and make it into a paper airplane, THEN can I throw it at someone? Actually, washing your hands before you eat is a good idea, sometimes…depending on what you’ve been doing-I wash my hands before I eat at work. (You never know where some of that money has been…) ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/42 "2000-12-05T23:30:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **jmullaney** _ > > > > … Jesus made fairly clear Leviticus isn’t divinely inspired. Just a book made up by yahoos which threw a wrench in the works) > > Cool! That means nobody can throw Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 in my face again! Woo hoo! > > Esprix \*\* Not nobody, **Espirix**. What if they don’t believe in Jesus? 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/43 "2000-12-05T23:31:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by douglips \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \*So next time that comes up, **Esprix** , just brush it aside as a precept of man taught as if it were a doctrine of God, grin like a maniac, and wonder out loud whether your fundalmentalist friend might actually have read the Bible at some point. > > > > \*\* > > Or my favorite: Ask them if they eat lobster or pork rinds, or wear cotton/poly blend underwear! It’s only an abomination unto the Lord if it says so in Leviticus **and** it conveniently scapegoats a group of the ‘other’. \*\* Actually, there’s nothing wrong with cotton/poly underwear. You’re thinking of wool and linen. Besides, that prohibition is in Dueteronomy, not Leviticus. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/44 "2000-12-05T23:36:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > Washing your hands when you eat is one of the 620-odd rules in Leviticus (I seem to recall it is the last one on the list). > \*\* Actually, there is no commandment in Leviticus to wash your hands before eating non-sacred foods (although, as **Guinastasia** points out, it is a good idea). There is a Jewish tradition, which was in place even in Jesus’ time (and is still observed by Orthodox Jews today) to ritually wash their hands before eating bread. This could be what was refered to in the Christian bible verse. However, it is not a commandment from Leviticus. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/45 "2000-12-06T00:41:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > there is no commandment in Leviticus to wash your hands before eating non-sacred foods Hmmm. I could have sworn. But, OK, still, I stand by my understanding of what Jesus meant in that passage. Any help on that “honor parents except…” thing he is talking about? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/46 "2000-12-06T00:50:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > there is no commandment in Leviticus to wash your hands before eating non-sacred foods > > Hmmm. I could have sworn. But, OK, still, I stand by my understanding of what Jesus meant in that passage. > > Any help on that “honor parents except…” thing he is talking about? \*\* I’m not a NT scholar, but taking a stab… There is nothing (in the Pentatuch, anyway) that says that if you speak evil of your parents that you are deserving of death. Of course, one should not speak evil of people in general. In addition, there is a positive commandment to honor your parents. Now, there is a commandment in Exodus (21, sorry don’t know the verse number off the top of my head) decreeing death for one who _curses_ his/her parents. ‘Speaks evil of’ is a poor translation of the Hebrew word _M’kallel_, which means to curse. But that would be my guess on the meaning of that verse. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![emjaycue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@emjaycue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjaycue)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/47 "2000-12-06T02:05:22Z")
Back to the OP, Christian perspective on witnessing: “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” (Matthew 5:13-16) To touch on what **Lucky** said way up the thread. > [@](#): > > And now that I’ve gotten so off topic, let me wrap it up by saying that I understand that Christians feel it is their duty to inform people about Jesus, I just wish they wouldn’t be so insistant that they have the ultimate truth when in fact, all they’ve got is the only “truth” they’ve ever looked at. Again, watch your blanket statements, I myself, a Christian (Catholic to be specific), live with two Muslims and a Mormon (the Mormon is even did missionary work in Russia two years ago), one of my best friends is Jewish, another is an atheist and MANY are what we Christians like to discribe as “seekers”. I discuss my beliefs with them, honestly and confidently, and meanwhile try to understand theirs VERY often. Not only is it a fun intellectual and spiritual exercise, it gives me insight into the perspective of others and helps me to understand some common ground we may share and what I may do that may be offensive to them. In short, this dialogue helps me act towards them with respect, for them and their perspective (even if I don’t think they are right… disagreement does not meen disrepect). In short, I try to educate myself so that I may better _act_ as an effective witness to my faith. Notice that Jesus doesn’t, supra, say that witnessing isn’t “do as I say, not as I do” or “I want to prove you wrong” or “I think I am better than you”. He merely exhorts Christians to, primarily by the way they _act_ ("that they may see your good deed) be witnesses. Of course, verbal witnessing is important too and there are passages to support that, but it is a by far weaker method of witnessing… and well, somewhat useless when it comes to others with different beliefs. **Guinastasia** wrote: > [@](#): > > I think, what witnessing should be is, instead of simply saying, YOu have to become Christian-go out there and SHOW people that you are trying to follow in Christ’s footsteps. > Do good for other people. Doesn’t the Bible say that whatsoever you do for the least of my brother, that you do unto me? > In other words-just do unto others as you would have done unto you. Amen. Ok, I’ll stop witnessing now 😉 Carry on. hee hee. –M ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/48 "2000-12-06T02:17:29Z")
**Nice** job, emjaycue!!! Somebody wandering around these boards had an absolutely terrific sig line I’d never seen before but have adopted as one of those things you live by: ‘“Preach the gospel to all men. If necessary, use words.” - St. Francis’ I stand for what I believe in. But (unless provoked) I don’t try to dump it on someone who doesn’t. I’m as honest as possible about my faith, and what it means to live it out in my life. And I’ll deal with the sort of question that comes up on a recurring basis here whenever I have some light to shed on a subject (“Combatting ignorance…”). But I don’t think that that makes me better than anyone else, nor do I have a burning desire to save everyone from the fires of Hell. God is quite capable of moving people to turn to Him when He thinks they’re ready, and He doesn’t ask my advice on who is or isn’t ready, so I try not to second-guess Him. Besides, He loves them enough that He died for them; I don’t figure He’s gonna be too quick to send anyone to Hell. What does motivate me is the vast improvement in my life and how I feel about myself that has come with being an honest follower of Him. That’s something I’d like to find a way to give to everybody else, the way you want to share that book/movie/joke/song that really makes you feel good with everybody you care about. So I succumb to temptation and witness on occasion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/49 "2000-12-06T14:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **emjaycue** _ > > I discuss my beliefs with them, honestly and confidently, and meanwhile try to understand theirs VERY often. Not only is it a fun intellectual and spiritual exercise, it gives me insight into the perspective of others and helps me to understand some common ground we may share and what I may do that may be offensive to them. In short, this dialogue helps me act towards them with respect, for them and their perspective (even if I don’t think they are right… disagreement does not meen disrepect). In short, I try to educate myself so that I may better _act_ as an effective witness to my faith. Has anyone ever told you you’re a closet Unitarian Universalist? Hie thee to your local liberal church, lad! Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/50 "2000-12-06T14:53:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **zev\_steinhardt** _ > > Not nobody, **Espirix**. What if they don’t believe in Jesus? 🙂 (Why is it everyone keeps misspelling my name lately? 😕) They said the OT was not “divinely inspired,” so, Christian or Jew, it ain’t the inerrant word of God. So nyeh. 😛 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/51 "2000-12-06T15:52:18Z")
Poly, yes, I’ve heard that quote. Its true. Mother Teresa was an example of this. By their works you shall know them. No “preaching” is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![emjaycue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@emjaycue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjaycue)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/52 "2000-12-06T16:45:45Z")
No I wouldn’t say I’m a closet unitarianist. I don’t believe in the _validity_ of others beliefs or the inherent truthfulness of any arbitrary belief. I am a Christian, albeit, yes, a liberal one (but not _that_ liberal) I still belief in things like the inerrancy of the Bible, the need to be saved, hell, etc. etc. I just was saying that the best way to _witness_ to someone isn’t to first knock them over the head in how much I disagree with them, but try **not** to piss them off or disrespect them, find common ground, and then use my actions as an appropriate witness for my faith. Instead of _telling_ them how wrong they are I try to _show_ them how right I am. I am not an effective witness to my brother or sister if I first begin by tearing him down. –M ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/53 "2000-12-06T16:49:20Z")
**Espricques** (😉 cheats! In addition to the UUs, the Episcopal Church also welcomes intelligent discourse in the world of faith, and doesn’t throw out pat answers that one must take on, uh, well… 🙂 As that college teacher/priest I mentioned was fond of saying: > [@](#): > > Jesus came to take away your sins – not your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/54 "2000-12-06T17:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **emjaycue** _ > > No I wouldn’t say I’m a closet unitarianist. “Unitarianist?” 😃 > [@](#): > > I don’t believe in the _validity_ of others beliefs or the inherent truthfulness of any arbitrary belief. I am a Christian, albeit, yes, a liberal one (but not _that_ liberal) I still belief in things like the inerrancy of the Bible, the need to be saved, hell, etc. etc. I just was saying that the best way to _witness_ to someone isn’t to first knock them over the head in how much I disagree with them, but try **not** to piss them off or disrespect them, find common ground, and then use my actions as an appropriate witness for my faith. Instead of _telling_ them how wrong they are I try to _show_ them how right I am. I am not an effective witness to my brother or sister if I first begin by tearing him down. I dunno - still has a lot of UU buzzwords in there. But one of UUism’s tenants is, indeed, respecting the inherent dignity and worth of many forms of worship, so if you can’t believe they might have some validity or truthfulness, then I suppose you don’t quite qualify on some basic level. Ah, well. Guess my own brand of recuitment didn’t work. 😃 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/55 "2000-12-06T17:10:29Z")
I fail to see the need for any religions at all. It seems clear to me that there is about as much evidence for the existence of Santa Claus as there is for some Supreme Being who is all-loving and all-powerful, yet will condemn you to eternal suffering for stepping out of line. Prayer seems to have no effect on the workings of the universe, no matter how fervently they are offered. Why do people feel the need to believe in the supernatural? Esprix, no offense, but unless your beliefs are paying rent, they’re _tenets_, not tenants. ---
**Author:** ![emjaycue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@emjaycue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjaycue)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/56 "2000-12-06T17:10:30Z")
Hee hee … oops, Unitar **ian** , but who said Catholisticians could spell 😉 –M ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/57 "2000-12-06T17:21:29Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Esprix \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Ah, well. Guess my own brand of recuitment didn’t work. 😃 > > Esprix \*\* Aha! Homosexual Agenda! Hurry up folks; we got Homosexual Agenda here! (Sorry, Esprix, but I couldn’t pass it up:)) Well, at least you have a place to recruit people to. As an atheist my best offer is, “You get to sleep in on Sunday.” ---
**Author:** ![emjaycue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@emjaycue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjaycue)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/58 "2000-12-06T17:34:20Z")
Hi **goboy**! Look, a witnessing atheist! 😉 > [@](#): > > Prayer seems to have no effect on the workings of the universe, no matter how fervently they are offered. Why do people feel the need to believe in the supernatural? Au contraire my good friend, prayer and God, has been making an active change within myself and within my heart, which last time I checked counted as part of the universe. And that’s just one example. > [@](#): > > Esprix, no offense, but unless your beliefs are paying rent, > they’re tenets, not tenants. Exactly, my friend, my beliefs don’t pay the rent. However, they do save me from being chained to the enslavement of material goods. Paul writes in 1 Timothy, about those who witnesses for money: “If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.” “But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” (1 Timothy 6:3-10 underlines added). So no, my faith doesn’t pay the rent. Who cares. –M P.S. **Ptahlis** , I **like** going to church and it actually makes me get my butt out of bed too and have a relaxing Sunday, spiritually refreshed 😉 I usually learn something too! ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/59 "2000-12-06T17:39:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **zev\_steinhardt** _ > > > > Not nobody, **Espirix**. What if they don’t believe in Jesus? 🙂 > > (Why is it everyone keeps misspelling my name lately? 😕) > \*\* Sorry about that, **Esprix**. My bad. > [@](#): > > \*\* > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > They said the OT was not “divinely inspired,” so, Christian or Jew, it ain’t the inerrant word of God. So nyeh. 😛 > > Esprix \*\* No. What **jumullaney** said was > [@](#): > > Jesus made fairly clear Leviticus isn’t divinely inspired. Just a book made up by yahoos which threw a wrench in the works So, since Jews don’t hold of Jesus’ authority, then we _can_ throw those Levitical verses back at you. So nyeh, nyeh!! 😛 😛😃 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![emjaycue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7993a0/32.png) [@emjaycue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjaycue)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847/60 "2000-12-06T17:47:42Z")
And we Christians can think you are wrong and choose to ignore you… nyeh nyeh 😉 Hee hee. –M [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-recruiting/43847.md?page=4)