# Religious ritual with doorway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921 "2017-05-05T16:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/21 "2017-05-06T14:19:30Z")
Maybe he was doing some kind of abbreviated pranama. Instead of touching his forehead to the ground, he touches the ground then his forehead? I dunno, because he has mobility difficulties, or he doesn’t want to do the full thing every time he comes in the room? Complete WAG. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranma](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranma) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/22 "2017-05-06T14:33:01Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Maybe he was doing some kind of abbreviated pranama. Instead of touching his forehead to the ground, he touches the ground then his forehead? I dunno, because he has mobility difficulties, or he doesn’t want to do the full thing every time he comes in the room? Complete WAG. > > [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranma](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranma) > **[Pranāma](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranama)** > > Pranāma (Sanskrit: प्रणाम; IAST: praṇāma; meaning: "obeisance, prostration or bowing forward") is a form of respectful or reverential salutation (or reverential bowing) before something or another person – usually one's elders, husband or teachers – as well as anyone deeply respected such as a deity, found in Indian culture and Hindu, Buddhist, Jain and Sikh traditions. > The gesture, also known as the apology hand gesture, is also used as an apology in certain situations. > Pranama is derived from... Fixed link. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/23 "2017-05-06T16:16:26Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Aluminum! Maybe he was grounding himself. Who did that in a movie, was it John Malkovich? Whoever it was they stayed indoor as much as possible, wrapped in foil and everyone had to leave their phones outside. Jimmy’s older brother in _Better Call Saul_. Although I knew an EM-phobic type once who was almost as bad. > [@DummyGladHands](#): > > Quiet googling? As opposed to… Okay, check off one totally completely inherently unnecessary adjective for me this year. I was using my tablet where he could see me; I didn’t make it obvious I was looking something up. I guess that qualifies my modifier. > [@Bayard](#): > > Maybe he was doing some kind of abbreviated pranama. Almost certainly on the right track, and yes, he could well have been Hindi/Pakistani. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/24 "2017-05-06T16:30:14Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Almost certainly on the right track, and yes, he could well have been Hindi/Pakistani. Hindi (Hindi-Urdu or Hindustani) is a language (like Kannada or Telugu), not a religion (like Hindu, Muslim, or Buddhist) or ethnic group. Pakistani is a nationality, not a religion or ethnic group. Pakistanis can be of any religion (mostly Muslim but there are some non-Muslims). They can also be of any ethnic group (the largest groups are Panjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, and Pathan/Pakhtun). The act of touching something or someone and then touching your forehead is a very common gesture of respect among Hindus (pronam). I suspect that South Asian Buddhists, Jains, Parsis (Zoroastrian), and Sikhs might do it as well, but I would be very surprised to learn that Muslims do it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/25 "2017-05-06T16:36:13Z")
Sorry, I knew I was sloppy in writing that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/26 "2017-05-06T17:08:15Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This, I believe. Also, for the sake of convenience (and usage in Israel when no one is getting bossy about details of their non-Ashkenazi essentially better background) Sephardi+Persian=Mizrachi. I have to nitpick a bit here: Mizrachim are Jews originating from Muslim countries; Sephardim are Jews whose ancestors were from medieval Spain. The terms can overlap but are not identical. Jews from North Africa, Syria or Iraq are both Sephardim and Mizrachim; Jews from Iran or Yemen are Mizrachim but not Sephardim; Jews from Greece or Bulgaria are Sephardim but not Mizrachim. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/27 "2017-05-06T20:31:52Z")
**Alessan** , 1. Thank you. 2. Your post was not a nitpick, but a wholesale correction. ETA: In Israel, are Ashkenazim typically as sloppy/non-knowledgable as I am/was? ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/28 "2017-05-06T21:08:42Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > ETA: In Israel, are Ashkenazim typically as sloppy/non-knowledgable as I am/was? I am - I lump everyone (non-Ashkanazi) under Sephardi, especially if I don’t know their family origin. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/29 "2017-05-06T21:27:25Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This, I believe. Also, for the sake of convenience (and usage in Israel when no one is getting bossy about details of their non-Ashkenazi essentially better background) Sephardi+Persian=Mizrachi. > > And the Jews from India and China and non-Arab Africa? Dunno, never met any. Never talked about them much either needing a group noun. There are Asian Jews. I met some Chinese Jews, and no, not a family of converts. Some people from a Jewish community in China with a Deaf child, who had come to the US, because they thought their child would have better opportunities for education, and employment as an adult, here. It was pretty impressive, the parents willing to start over, because China apparently makes life fairly crappy for Deaf people. I don’t know what the term is either. I know they kept kosher for Passover much more like the Sephardim, and pronounced Hebrew more like the Sephardim. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/30 "2017-05-06T21:43:22Z")
There are the Cochin Jews of India, probably the only people who didn’t experience anti-semitism. They have lived in India since King Solomon’s time. [Cochin Jews - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/31 "2017-05-06T22:21:51Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > There are the Cochin Jews of India, probably the only people who didn’t experience anti-semitism… nitpick: [del]people[/del] Jews 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/32 "2017-05-06T23:04:22Z")
I didn’t get the nitpick LeoBloom. Care to explain ? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/33 "2017-05-07T00:02:57Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > I didn’t get the nitpick LeoBloom. Care to explain ? I’m sure plenty of Gentiles haven’t experienced antisemitism. But most Jews have at some point in time. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/34 "2017-05-07T00:24:19Z")
I’d bet most Gentiles in the US have experienced it, from others around them, just not on the receiving end. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/35 "2017-05-07T12:46:33Z")
I get that somebody took offense. I’m not getting the rest of it. **am77494** used the exact same terminology as the wiki article he/she cited. I don’t see \*any \*difference between “Protestant Christian” and “Ashkenazi Jew”. The first term is identifying a sub-group of the second term. The words aren’t quite parallel because “Ashkenazi” or “Cochin” are (mostly?) ethnic / regional origin terms whereas “Protestant” is a belief / sect term. Perhaps “African Christian” or “Irish Christian” is a closer match. Or in my personal case “North American-Caucasian Atheist”. None of which seem objectionable (to me) in the slightest. The terms “Orthodox Jew”, “Persian Jew”, “Jews from India and China and non-Arab Africa”, “Jews originating from Muslim countries”, “Jews whose ancestors were from medieval Spain”, “Jews from North Africa, Syria or Iraq”, “Jews from Iran or Yemen”, “Jews from Greece or Bulgaria”, “Asian Jews”, and “Chinese Jews” have all been used in this thread without comment. But somehow “Cochin Jew” was immediately objectionable to some. I recognize that offense is in the eye of the beholder and in some arenas even very small amounts of offense are commonly considered excessive. Would someone in the know care to outline the boundaries here? Some unschooled heathens sometimes don’t get it. Even well-intentioned unschooled heathens. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/36 "2017-05-07T12:53:23Z")
Having made a big (and now uneditable) post I now see I read \*\*Leo \*\*exactly backwards. As Emily Littella used to say every Saturday “Never miiiind” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/37 "2017-05-07T14:10:37Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > ETA: In Israel, are Ashkenazim typically as sloppy/non-knowledgable as I am/was? Oh, sure. Lots of Israelis are unclear on the matter, especially considering how much the issue has been muddled by politics. Israelis of every origin often use the terms “Mizrachi” and “Sephardi” interchangeably to mean something like “Jew of color”. I confess that I was kind of confused about the subject myself until my wife, whose grandparents are from Greece and Bulgaria, gave me a crash course. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/38 "2017-05-07T20:30:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m sure plenty of Gentiles haven’t experienced antisemitism. But most Jews have at some point in time. Not a nitpick per se, but some have ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/39 "2017-05-08T07:25:30Z")
Sephardic Jews of Iberian origin relocated in Bosnia, Greece, and Turkey, among other countries, but those in particular because they were Ottoman realms in 1492 when Ferdinand & Isabella kicked out the Jews, over in Turkey Sultan Bayezid was all “Hey, guys, we like Jews, come on over here!” In 1992, when everybody else was paying attention to the 500th anniversary of Columbus, I was running a library where all kinds of religious studies pamphlets came through, including one from the Jews of Istanbul celebrating the 500th anniversary of being invited in by the Ottomans, who valued their contributions to society; if not for that chance find, I don’t think I would have ever known of this. I once read an anecdote of an old Jewish woman in Sarajevo who overheard a priest visiting from Spain; she thought he was a rabbi because the only people she’d ever heard speak Spanish were Jews. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921/40 "2017-05-22T03:27:13Z")
I just came across this passage in a book called The Power of Meaning by Emily Esfahani Smith. It’s in the introduction where she talks about her childhood with her parents in a Sufi home in Montreal. (Bold added) > [@](#): > > On Thursday and Sunday evenings, a group of seekers gathered in a large room of my family’s home in downtown Montreal, where my parents ran a Sufi meetinghouse. Sufism is the school of mysticism associated with Islam, and my family belonged to the Nimatullahi Sufi Order, which originated in Iran in the fourteenth century and today has meetinghouses all over the world. Twice a week, darvishes [sic]—or members of the order—would sit on the floor and meditate for several hours. > … > > Formal rituals also governed Sufi life. When the darvishes greeted each other, they said Ya Haqq, “The Truth,” and performed a special handshake by putting their hands together like a heart and kissing that heart. **When they entered or left the meditation room, they “kissed” the ground by touching their fingers to the floor and then to their lips.** > … This sounds a little like the gesture described in the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-ritual-with-doorway/785921.md?page=3)