# Religious-type question about Doubting Thomas **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 17, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528 "2021-11-17T20:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/1 "2021-11-17T20:16:02Z")
It is written somewhere that the first time the Resurrected Jesus appeared to his Apostles, Thomas as not there to witness the event. And when the other ten told him about it, he said he wouldn’t believe it until Jesus appeared to him personally, and let him put his hands in the nail holes and the lance-wound in his side. And that Jesus came around again when Thomas WAS, there and let him probe the Stigmata. Do you suppose Jesus flinched when Thomas started poking around in still-healling wounds? ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/2 "2021-11-17T21:06:14Z")
Do you suppose any of this actually happened? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/3 "2021-11-17T21:14:41Z")
> **[Bible Gateway passage: John 20:24-28 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2B20%3A24-28&version=NIV)** > > Jesus Appears to Thomas - Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and... There are suggestions (e.g. “Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them”) that the resurrected Jesus did not have the same kind of physical body, with the same physical limitations, as before. But if he had a new, improved body, why did it still have those wounds? Maybe precisely so he could demonstrate that way that it was really him, and he really had been crucified? ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/4 "2021-11-17T21:16:57Z")
I am very much _not_ an expert and have not attended bible study with any sort of regularity for a long time (like, never, but I did go to Sunday school…) so take this with a grain of salt, but I recall this coming up once and this is what I remember… The answer is, of course, _who knows_. John does not actually claim Thomas went poking around with his fingers in Jesus’ wounds. Jesus basically tells Tom to take a good hard look at his wounds and quit being a Doubting Thomas (which, in case you were unaware, is where this phrase comes from). Specifically: > [@](#): > > 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. > > 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. > > 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. > > 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. –John 20: 26-29 So according to Paul what actually happened was Jesus, finally standing before in Thomas in person, challenged Tom to make good on his doubts, calling his bluff. It doesn’t say Thomas actually did so, or that he touched Jesus, just that he saw the wounds for himself and, presumably, agreed in their authenticity and became a True Believer right then and there. If Thomas actually probed Christ’s wounds that brings us to Paul. In 1 Corinthians 15 he is explaining the resurrection to the Corinth church. He writes: > [@](#): > > 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. –1 Corinthians 15: 44 I understand this to mean (and what I remember being taught in Sunday school) that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, not a physical flesh-and-blood man. Of course there’s also Acts which state that he was literally brought back from the dead as a living man: > [@](#): > > 1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, > > 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, > > 3 to whom He also **presented Himself alive after His suffering** by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. –Acts 1: 1-3 To ask the question in the OP assumes a literal interpretation of the NT which will be difficult because different passages can – and will – be interpreted differently. If you believe Jesus was resurrected as a living breathing man made of flesh then yeah, he probably felt some discomfort when Thomas explored his wounds, but then again John doesn’t actually say that happened, so your premise is flawed to begin with, but Paul basically said Jesus was resurrected as a spirit or, at least, a different kind of body that had died on the cross. So the answer is, really, whatever you want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/5 "2021-11-17T21:29:59Z")
I am no medical expert but I would guess, yes, it’s not comfortable to have someone poking and prodding about inside a spear-hole wound in your torso. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/6 "2021-11-17T21:35:35Z")
I edited the title to make it a little more obvious what the thread was about. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/7 "2021-11-17T22:11:59Z")
I thought there was a passage where somebody wanted to touch him, and he had some reason for denying it, like he was still transforming or something. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/8 "2021-11-17T22:14:17Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > like he was still transforming or something. Like The Thing? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/9 "2021-11-17T23:39:08Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I thought there was a passage where somebody wanted to touch him, and he had some reason for denying it, like he was still transforming or something. I think you’re thinking of John 20:11-18, which is right before the bit about Doubting Thomas. In the [King James Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A11-18&version=KJV), Jesus says to Mary Magdalene: “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” In more modern translations, “Touch me not” is translated as “Do not hold on to me” or “Stop holding on to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/10 "2021-11-17T23:42:43Z")
[https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/39482854.jpg](https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/39482854.jpg) Oh look - a handbasket. Pardon me while I climb in… ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/11 "2021-11-17T23:55:45Z")
That’s the one. I’ll have to look it up, and see how they fan wank it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/12 "2021-11-18T01:35:23Z")
Moderating: > [@ratatoskK](#): > > Do you suppose any of this actually happened? Hey, this is a thread shit. If you have no interest in the topic, just nice on to another topic. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/13 "2021-11-18T02:00:35Z")
In one of his other post-resurrection appearances, Jesus eats some food with his apostles, and reassures them “Does a ghost eat?”. So while his new form might still be different somehow in its fundamental nature, it’s not so different that it’s not still a living, biological body. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/14 "2021-11-18T05:18:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In one of his other post-resurrection appearances, Jesus eats some food with his apostles [caveat: this is based on 50+ yr old memories…] I think that was the first one, and the apostles were wandering around going “Whoa, what is with that empty tomb? I’m freakin’, man…” It’s just after dawn, and they come upon a guy on the shore, grilling fish over a fire, and he asks them what happened while he serves them crispy tilapia. . .[[_could’ve been_…]](https://thehealthyfish.com/the-biblical-origins-of-tilapia/) That blew my little Sunday School brain: _Whoa, Jesus is a class guy! First miracle? Turning water into wine (and the good stuff, better than the wedding had run out of). First appearance after death? He’s making breakfast for his friends…_ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/15 "2021-11-18T15:12:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Jesus eats some food with his apostles, and reassures them “Does a ghost eat?”. So while his new form might still be different somehow in its fundamental nature, it’s not so different that it’s not still a living, biological body. The traditional mainline orthodoxy has been that Jesus underwent the fullness of the Resurrection of the Flesh ahead of everyone else, so he did rise in his real own physical body, only now it is a “glorified” body freed from the deficiencies of the finite world – Aquinas defines that as being imperishable and freed from restraint of matter and space. The latter sounds to me like that means Jesus’ physical body now abides in the transcendent plane and he can make it present in our dimension at will, where it is as material (according to our finite world’s perception of “matter”) as it was before. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/16 "2021-11-18T15:46:30Z")
> [@digs](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > In one of his other post-resurrection appearances, Jesus eats some food with his apostles > > [caveat: this is based on 50+ yr old memories…] > > I think that was the first one, and the apostles were wandering around going “Whoa, what is with that empty tomb? I’m freakin’, man…” > It’s just after dawn, and they come upon a guy on the shore, grilling fish over a fire, and he asks them what happened while he serves them crispy tilapia. . .[[_could’ve been_…]](https://thehealthyfish.com/the-biblical-origins-of-tilapia/) > > That blew my little Sunday School brain: _Whoa, Jesus is a class guy! First miracle? Turning water into wine (and the good stuff, better than the wedding had run out of). First appearance after death? He’s making breakfast for his friends…_ If it’s breakfast, I’d be more likely to think of kippers than tilapia… ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/17 "2021-11-18T16:09:32Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The latter sounds to me like that means Jesus’ physical body now abides in the transcendent plane and he can make it present in our dimension at will, where it is as material (according to our finite world’s perception of “matter”) as it was before. Way to make him sound like a Marvel character! ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/18 "2021-11-18T21:17:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If it’s breakfast, I’d be more likely to think of kippers than tilapia… _Could we have kippers for breakfast?_ _Mommy dear, mommy dear_ _They gotta have 'em in Juda_ _Cause everyone’s a millionaire_ ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/19 "2021-11-18T21:38:01Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Do you suppose any of this actually happened? Well, it’s never mentioned in any of the three other, earlier gospels. Indeed, Thomas is only mentioned 7 times in the gospels, 4 of those times in lists of the apostles. Plus we really don’t know what his name was, it’s not given in the original texts. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528/20 "2021-11-18T21:44:49Z")
I find that - and that you know this so precisely - most interesting. There were 12 apostels (right? or is this also just an approximate magic number with some kaballistic occult significance?), do you happen to know how often each one is mentioned? My guess would be that Simon/Peter is the most often mentioned one, followed by John, James and Judas Iscariot, but that is just a guess. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-type-question-about-doubting-thomas/954528.md?page=2)