# Reluctantly — Fuck Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289 "2021-02-19T14:59:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/161 "2021-02-23T17:43:25Z")
It would look a fair bit like Texas does at the moment. What? You think they aren’t already? How close did Donald Trump get to re-election? Fewer than 100k votes split among a few states. And that’s with a LOT of pushback and doing something about it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/162 "2021-02-23T18:37:03Z")
“Every people get the government they deserve,” Joseph de Maistre ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/163 "2021-02-23T18:46:54Z")
That’s a profound-sounding aphorism that is quite obviously wrong. Every nation with a functioning democracy gets the government they _choose_. But that certainly does not mean that all people in that nation _deserve_ the consequences, since a minority did not make that choice, and some may not get to vote at all. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/164 "2021-02-23T19:08:26Z")
Well don’t you know? We didn’t try hard enough to proselytize. So clearly, we get we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/165 "2021-02-23T19:10:40Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > “Every people get the government they deserve,” Joseph de Maistre Say that to a German Jew who lived through Hitler. Or Uyghur people in China today. Or a Black slave in the U.S. circa 1800. How did they deserve those governments? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/166 "2021-02-23T19:54:25Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Say that to a German Jew who lived through Hitler. Or Uyghur people in China today. Or a Black slave in the U.S. circa 1800. How did they deserve those governments? While I agree that de Maistre’s remark is problematic in a lot of ways, it should be noted that he wasn’t making this statement about what any individuals in a “people” may happen to deserve. “Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite” (“Every nation has the government it deserves”) is a claim about a nation in the aggregate, even if many of its individuals deserve a lot better than what they get. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/167 "2021-02-23T20:18:34Z")
You realise “Texans” are not an ethnic minority in Texas? Texans as a whole got exactly the government they deserve. Nevermind, Godwin says you lost. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/168 "2021-02-23T20:48:31Z")
Exactly. If Texans cared as much about regulating their electricity as they do women’s bodies they wouldn’t be in this mess. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/169 "2021-02-23T21:10:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > While I agree that de Maistre’s remark is problematic in a lot of ways, it should be noted that he wasn’t making this statement about what any individuals in a “people” may happen to deserve. > > “Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite” (“Every nation has the government it deserves”) is a claim about a nation in the aggregate, even if many of its individuals deserve a lot better than what they get. But that’s the entire problem with the statement. It’s a [deepity](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity). In a trivial sense it’s true that the nation as an aggregate made a _choice_, because that the way democracies work, the majority vote determines the leadership for the whole nation. But makes no sense to say that the nation as an aggregate _deserve the consequences_. No defensible moral code assigns responsibility to people _en masse_, nobody deserves anything for choices they didn’t _personally_ make. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/170 "2021-02-23T22:25:38Z")
The quote as presented was “people” not nations. And even if you allow that, way too many nations have had governments forced on them. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/171 "2021-02-23T22:34:21Z")
First, that is not what Godwin said. > **[Godwin’s law Meme | Meaning & History | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/)** > > Godwin’s law is the proposition that the longer an internet argument goes on, the higher the probability becomes that something or someone will be compared to Adolf Hitler. “Texan” is not an ethnicity at all, but many Texans are ethnic minorities. And many of them did not vote Republican. Also, many of them are children. Some of whom died. What did they do to deserve that? You want to rant about Cruz, Abbot, Perry, and the rest of the assholes who helped cause this mess I support that. You want to express some schadenfreude towards the people who supported these policies, or at least fell for them, I won’t join, but I understand. Especially the specific ones that mocked other states during their disasters. But the suffering from this fell disproportionately on those who did not have any say in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/172 "2021-02-23T22:50:12Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > You realise “Texans” are not an ethnic minority in Texas? > Texans as a whole got exactly the government they deserve. > > Nevermind, Godwin says you lost. Hating Texans for being Texans is still bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/173 "2021-02-24T02:24:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > “Every people get the government they deserve,” Joseph de Maistre “A witty saying proves nothing” - Voltaire ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/174 "2021-02-24T08:02:25Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > First, that is not what Godwin said Language is defined by how we use it. From wikipedia : > For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever [debate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate) is in progress.[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-8) This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin’s law.[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-9) > [@Grrr](#): > > Hating Texans for being Texans is still bigotry. I was objecting to comparing Texans under Abbot et al. with Jews under Hitler. I admit I feel some inappropriate Schadenfreude for the folks who voted for Ted Cancun and “AOC did it” Abbot . “Hate” would be exaggerating it a bit. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/175 "2021-02-24T13:48:25Z")
How about: “Enough is a fucking enough, Texas. Get your shit together. Stop being so fucking racist and ignorant and learn to govern yourselves. Stop executing people and take a minute to look in the fucking mirror. You are a global fucking embarrassment and no one is going to get you out of this mess, but you. Get to fucking work and fix it. Stop electing politicians who are openly hostile to competent government, stop listening to the oligarchs while they pander to your bigotry so they can pilfer your children’s futures. And while we’re at it: enough with the big belt buckles, they’re tacky.” - MM28 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/176 "2021-02-24T14:00:46Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Nevermind, Godwin says you lost. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Language is defined by how we use it. Even if _Godwin’s Law_ per se says you lost, which it doesn’t, really, even if an argument can be made for it by usage, _Godwin_ certainly doesn’t say you lost. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/177 "2021-02-24T14:42:33Z")
Wow, more nitpicking about some silly internet meme. How about we stop doing that AND stop comparing Texans without electrical power to Jews and the holocaust. With heavy emphasis on the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/178 "2021-02-24T14:47:38Z")
Ahh, the “i was only joking” gambit! It sure seemed like you tried to use purported properties of Godwin’s Law to claim victory. The point was spot on. It disproves the idea that people get the government they deserve. How about stop nitpicking a comparison just because it’s been overused? Being overused doesn’t make it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/179 "2021-02-24T15:20:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > And while we’re at it: enough with the big belt buckles, they’re tacky.” And bolo ties! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289/180 "2021-02-24T15:31:13Z")
“claim victory” ? LOL I wanted to “use purported properties of Godwin’s Law” to claim it is stupid to compare the situation in Texas to the Holocaust. I obviously have failed in my purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reluctantly-fuck-texas/933289.md?page=10)