# Remember That Geraldo Rivera Special On Satanism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787 "2020-12-10T19:23:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/1 "2020-12-10T19:23:39Z")
I sure do. I was already a young adult. I think it was in 1987. That sounds about right. Anyway he was widely criticized for it. I’ll add a cite if anyone wants one. But basically people said his statistics were way off, and that there in fact was no secret Satanic conspiracy in the U.S. His statistics were a little off. I think he said every city, every municipality, every township had at least one Satanist in it. That may have been a little off. But I recall he had a lot of gory pictures too. I seem to recall a man they poured wax into his eyelids and a bloody mortar and pestle for some reason. And he said he didn’t show the worst of the pictures. What did that mean? Okay, maybe it isn’t as widespread or organized as Geraldo said it was. But some of the special was still thought provoking. What do the rest of you think? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/2 "2020-12-10T19:49:11Z")
There is an official Church of Satan, so it’s definitely organized. It’s more of an anti-religion or protest religion than an actual church worshiping Satan, though. But if you want to get married in the Church of Satan, they do provide wedding services. They also provide funeral services and baptism services, according to Wikipedia. There is also the Satanic Temple, which again is more of an atheistic or protest religion than a true Satan-worshiping religion. The church was formed as a protest against George W. Bush’s formation of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and according to its founder, the idea was to form a church “that met all the Bush administration’s criteria for receiving funds, but was repugnant to them”. The Temple currently has 22 chapters in the U.S. and 3 chapters outside of the U.S. Wikipedia links: > **[Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan)** > > The Church of Satan (CoS) is a religious organization dedicated to the religion of Satanism as defined by Anton Szandor LaVey. Founded in San Francisco in 1966, by LaVey, it is considered the "oldest satanic religion in continual existence", and more importantly the most influential, inspiring "numerous imitator and breakaway groups".\[Note 1\] According to the Church, Satanism has been "codified" as "a religion and philosophy" by LaVey and his church. > Founded in an era when there was much public... > **[The Satanic Temple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple)** > > The Satanic Temple (TST) is a non-theistic religious organization and new religious movement, founded in 2013 and headquartered in Salem, Massachusetts. It has been described as founded to "fight a perceived intrusion of Christian values on American politics", but has congregations in Australia, Canada, Finland, Germany, and the United Kingdom as well. Co-founded by Lucien Greaves, the organization's spokesperson, and Malcolm Jarry, the group does not view Satan as either The organization sees ... By the way, Wikipedia also has this: > In December 2007 the Associated Press reported on a story concerning the Church of Satan, in which a teenager had sent an email to High Priest Gilmore stating he wanted to “kill in the name of our unholy lord Satan.” Gilmore then reported the message to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, who informed local police, who arrested the teenager. So, they aren’t exactly encouraging members to go around killing in the name of Satan. I personally would call it more of a protest against religion than an actual Satanic conspiracy. ETA: As for the special, I do remember it, and I remember thinking that it was all pretty silly, just like Al Capone’s vault. I never took Geraldo seriously as a journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/3 "2020-12-10T20:13:28Z")
It means “If it bleeds, it leads.” Rivera was going for shock and tittilation, and using deliberately scary imagery to attract eyeballs. Satanists certainly existed and exist - the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, are still around. But they’re minority religions, and have nowhere near the influence or power the “Satanic Panic” nutjobs attributed to them. At a guess, the most influential Satanist group around today is [The Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com), the folks behind putting a Baphomet statue on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capitol, in protest to a lawmaker’s attempt to erect one to the Ten Commandments; and handing out Satanic storybooks to kids in a Florida school that had been targeted by the Gideons handing out Testaments. While the leaders of TST claim to be authentic atheistic Satanists - who don’t believe in his literal existence, but celebrate him as a symbol of free thought and rebellion against dogma - the Temple’s primary mission is to use Satanic imagery to highlight instances of Christian privilege and church-state violations. They’re by no means a secret, hidden organization, nor an evil one - as a matter of fact, their core moral principles are superior to much Christian morality, in my view. But mainly they’re defenders of the First Amendment and religious freedom. I think The Satanic Temple is great - they’re like the ACLU, if it were run by Monty Python. ETA: ninja’d by @engineer_comp_geek! I call down His Infernal Majesty’s curses on you, **ECG**! ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/4 "2020-12-10T21:13:31Z")
I’ve always been intrigued by the theory that the Satanic Panic of the 80’s was triggered by fundamentalist backlash to feminism. Rumors of organized Satanist pedophile rings taking over daycare facilities was a concept actually put forward on that Geraldo special. Of course, if women were at home taking care of their kids as God intended, those poor kids wouldn’t be getting ritually molested and sacrificed by Satanists, would they? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/5 "2020-12-10T21:39:02Z")
Having been a teenager during the Satanic Panic, I still remember fondly how my Mother accused us of playing D&D in the basement because it was _dark_ down there. I reminded her it was because she kicked us out of the dining room. Geraldo wasn’t a big influence, but 60 Minutes sure was. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/6 "2020-12-10T21:49:18Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Geraldo wasn’t a big influence, but 60 Minutes sure was. And “Dr.” Dale W. Griffis: > **[...:::Murders In West Memphis:::...](https://www.jivepuppi.com/dale_griffis.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/7 "2020-12-10T21:57:24Z")
There are probably a few Satanists in the US or world, but you won’t find them in the Church of Satan nor the Satanic Temple. And I doubt there was any truth whatsoever in anything that Geraldo said or showed on that special. The gory pictures were probably staged by special effects pros. As far as panic goes, my dad was convinced that Enya was satanic, but he didn’t even notice when one of my friends came over and played Marilyn Manson on the stereo (specifically for the purpose of trolling my dad, of course). Mom, fortunately, was sane. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/9 "2020-12-10T23:57:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are probably a few Satanists in the US or world, but you won’t find them in the Church of Satan nor the Satanic Temple. Uh, what? You _don’t_ think there are Satanists in the Church of Satan or The Satanic Temple? Why on earth not? Why would a non-Satanist join a Satanic religion? It’s possible that there may be some members of The Satanic Temple who don’t actually adhere to that religion, who simply support the Temple in its work. But TST founder Lucien Greaves claims to subscribe to non-theistic Satanism, and there’s no reason to doubt him. I imagine most other members do as well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/10 "2020-12-11T00:05:03Z")
A satanist is someone who worships Satan, which both of the major organizations explicitly say they don’t do. Yes, they call themselves satanists, but if they called themselves unicorns, they wouldn’t be that, either. Why do they call themselves something they’re not? You’d have to ask them that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/11 "2020-12-11T00:07:09Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > It’s possible that there may be some members of The Satanic Temple who don’t actually adhere to that religion, who simply support the Temple in its work. It might also be possible (if not probable) that you don’t know what the Satanic Temple and the Church Of Satan are all about…although there has been more than one attempt in this thread to enlighten people on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/12 "2020-12-11T00:12:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > It’s possible that there may be some members of The Satanic Temple who don’t actually adhere to that religion, who simply support the Temple in its work. > > It might also be possible (if not probable) that you don’t know what the Satanic Temple and the Church Of Satan are all about…although there has been more than one attempt in this thread to enlighten people on the subject I was just reading through the Wikipedia entries on the CoS and TST when you posted this. Don’t know much about the Church of Satan, true, but I’m fairly familiar with The Satanic Temple and the work they do. I don’t see what has prompted this rather hostile post. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/13 "2020-12-11T00:17:06Z")
I remember the rumor that Motley Crue once performed the ritual sacrifice of a live baby at one of their shows. And they got away with it in front of, what, 35,000 fans? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/14 "2020-12-11T00:21:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A satanist is someone who worships Satan, which both of the major organizations explicitly say they don’t do. Yes, they call themselves satanists, but if they called themselves unicorns, they wouldn’t be that, either. Why do they call themselves something they’re not? You’d have to ask them that Oh, I see what you’re saying. However, there is a [tradition of non-theistic Satanism/Luciferianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism) going back to the Enlightenment that venerates Satan as a symbol of rebellion, skepticism, and rational thought, without believing in his actual existence. And they call themselves Satanists. Just as the followers of Siddhartha Gautama call themselves “Buddhists”, even though they don’t worship him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/15 "2020-12-11T00:25:09Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I was just reading through the Wikipedia entries on the CoS and TST when you posted this. Don’t know much about the Church of Satan, true, but I’m fairly familiar with The Satanic Temple and the work they do. I don’t see what has prompted this rather hostile post. As Chronos said, the active worship of Satan is actively discouraged by both organizations, so the likelihood of finding people who do not actually worship Satan in either group is actually quite high. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/16 "2020-12-11T00:28:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > I was just reading through the Wikipedia entries on the CoS and TST when you posted this. Don’t know much about the Church of Satan, true, but I’m fairly familiar with The Satanic Temple and the work they do. I don’t see what has prompted this rather hostile post. > > As Chronos said, the active worship of Satan is actively discouraged by both organizations, so the likelihood of finding people who do not actually worship Satan in either group is actually quite high Yeah, he clarified that he was referring to theistic Satanism. Which is a religious tradition that neither the CoS nor TST hold, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/17 "2020-12-11T00:32:51Z")
Actual Satan worshippers are extremely rare, and groups that actually worship Satan are rarer still. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/18 "2020-12-11T01:15:00Z")
I had a conservative Christian colleague circa 1990 who told us a couple times about his church having experts come in to explain how to spot graffiti from Satanists. Paid experts seem to fuel a lot of the hysteria in such crazes. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/19 "2020-12-11T01:15:36Z")
From what I’ve seen this thread I, as a Christian, have no quarrel with TST. I don’t know that I can say the same thing about COS. If it’s true that Anton LaVey said that Rand’s Objectivism was Satanism without the ceremony, then I have a problem with them. That would mean they oppose the teachings of Jesus, while the former champions freedom of religion. While neither professes belief in a being called Satan (I don’t either, for that matter), from what I’ve seen here the two groups look pretty different. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/20 "2020-12-11T13:39:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > the rumor that Motley Crue once performed the ritual sacrifice of a live baby at one of their shows. And they got away with it in front of, what, 35,000 fans? The shocking part here is the thought of 35,000 people indoors, unmasked. I’ve never read the koran, nor the bible. I _have_ read the satanic bible, and found it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787/21 "2020-12-11T16:13:57Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > It’s possible that there may be some members of The Satanic Temple who don’t actually adhere to that religion, who simply support the Temple in its work. Can you get to Hell through bad deeds alone? Is Damnation by Faith or Works? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-geraldo-rivera-special-on-satanism/927787.md?page=2)