# Remember that thread with the dumb argument about jumping cats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 8, 2008, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671 "2008-07-08T09:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/21 "2008-07-08T12:49:45Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] No need to rely on memory, we have the link. **Blake** lists good cites in post 21. **Desmostylus** responds claiming that his personal observation negates **Blake** ’s disproof. That’s not the Straight Dope way. **Blake** says that he would be quite happy to be wrong but wants to see a solid cite (post 33). He admits his ignorance and provides another good cite (post 42). More anecdotes are presented. **Desmostylus** calls him a fool and says **Blake** doesn’t have evidence that cats _can’t_ jump six feet (post 58), while presenting no evidence of his own. And so it goes on. [/QUOTE] You didn’t get to page 4 of that thread yet, where [**Desmostylus** supplied a pretty reputable cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4387693&postcount=151), and then [**obfusciatrist** showed that **Blake** ’s own pet cite contradicted him](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4402018&postcount=181)? Basically, **Blake** had misinterpreted the observation that, _for a given design of animal_, increasing its size will not increase the height it can jump. But cats are not designed like people, so it is hardly surprising that they can jump higher. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/22 "2008-07-08T12:59:10Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Yes. And while I’m no fan of **Blake** and certainly believed he was factually wrong, I must say I was squarely on his side there. We never accept anecdotal evidence for anything else, but here suddenly we were supposed to and if you wanted to uphold the same standards we always do you were an idiot. Huh? [/QUOTE] You never accept anecdotal evidence? How do you know Antarctica exists? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/23 "2008-07-08T13:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party] You never accept anecdotal evidence? How do you know Antarctica exists? [/QUOTE] Satellite pictures? It’s right there on my globe? It’s got its own wikipedia entry? The general point stands, though. We all routinely accept anecdotal claims, and there’s nothing essentially wrong with it, provided they don’t strain credulity/are in conflict with the known laws of physics/in any way contradict how we understand the way the world works/have a suspicious context. In quite a lot of cases, it will be the only evidence you have/can conceivably acquire for a certain claim. For instance, if your dear old aunt Agatha claims to have been mugged last week after collecting her pension check, you won’t cry “cite?”, but rather “that bastard!” (provided your aunt doesn’t regularly try to exhort money from you using fabrications like that). If, however, ol’ auntie claims to have seen a UFO piloted by the ghost of her dear deceased hubbie Ben, you’d be justified in assuming that she’s maybe going a little funny in the head. Having read through the thread, I’d say that **Blake** ought to have accepted what he claimed to be mere anecdotes, but only because his own cites didn’t back him strongly enough, referring, as they did, to a general issue of scale versus jumping height, discounting the effect of muscle and bone structure. I am however a bit disappointed that **Mangetout** apparently never carried out his proposed experiment. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/24 "2008-07-08T13:24:38Z")
[QUOTE=Half Man Half Wit] \ I am however a bit disappointed that **Mangetout** apparently never carried out his proposed experiment. 😛 [/QUOTE] He has been [busy](http://atomicshrimp.com/) watching grass grow and nailing jelly to a tree. Oh, and building a boat. The man’s busy, I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/25 "2008-07-08T13:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] - You know - the one where it was against the laws of physics for any animal to be able to jump higher than three feet - and any observation to the contrary was ‘anecdotal’ or otherwise worthless? [/QUOTE] But cats never studied law! Sorry. Couldn’t resist the Bugs Bunny quote. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/26 "2008-07-08T13:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=Half Man Half Wit] I am however a bit disappointed that **Mangetout** apparently never carried out his proposed experiment. 😛 [/QUOTE] I just never got around to doing it - but someone else did - and here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/27 "2008-07-08T13:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Yeah, but on the way to that, he came out with bald assertions (also not the SD way, if I’m not mistaken), and generally alienated everyone else by insisting they were imagining things (look at post #23). [/QUOTE] I’m not seeing the bald assertions, just a whole lot of “I might be wrong, could you show me?”, and nor am I seeing him claiming people imagine things, just that he doesn’t accept anecdotal evidence. > [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > You never accept anecdotal evidence? Like I said, _I_ believed cats could jump higher all along. _I_ didn’t have a problem with that. But I would never expect anyone else to accept something just because I said it was so, and I certainly wouldn’t call them a fool for not doing so. > [@Colophon](#): > > You didn’t get to page 4 of that thread yet No, I only read the first half or so this time around, and I don’t remember how far I kept up with it five years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/28 "2008-07-08T13:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I’m not seeing the bald assertions [/quote] Post #21: “Physics just wouldn’t allow a jump of anywhere near that height.” > [@](#): > > and nor am I seeing him claiming people imagine things (the aforementioned) post #23: “…no more credible than those people who claim they have seen Elvis working at Burger King.” ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/29 "2008-07-08T15:41:15Z")
[QUOTE=Crotalus] He has been [busy](http://atomicshrimp.com/) watching grass grow and nailing jelly to a tree. Oh, and building a boat. The man’s busy, I tell ya. [/QUOTE] Hah! Now that’s just brilliant. Kudos on the boat, looks like it was quite a piece of work, and it turned out well! You’re absolved of my accusations of experimental neglect. For what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/30 "2008-07-08T15:43:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Post #21: “Physics just wouldn’t allow a jump of anywhere near that height.” [/quote] I’ll give you that one. > [@](#): > > (the aforementioned) post #23: “…no more credible than those people who claim they have seen Elvis working at Burger King.” But not this one. Anecdotal evidence is at this level of credibility. It’s the whole point of using cites, and the scientific method, and all that good stuff. Even though cites eventually started appearing, what I’m seeing is still over 150 posts of one guy posting cites and asking for countercites and lots of people presenting anecdotal evidence, and the mood somehow turning on the first guy. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/31 "2008-07-08T15:47:32Z")
Just wanted to say I saw the video on ebaum’s world. Very cool, and they are beautifully marked kittehs. squee! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/32 "2008-07-08T16:06:32Z")
What part of “There is an upper limit on how far any animal can jump, and it’s about 2 feet IIRC” is not a bald assertion? ETA: good God that thread was nearly five years ago! Seems like only yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/33 "2008-07-08T16:22:13Z")
That is one gorgeous cat! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/34 "2008-07-08T16:39:47Z")
Better copy of video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCcfymXQkM4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCcfymXQkM4) By the way that’s an F1 Savannah Cat ( 1rst generation hybrid of a domestic cat and a Serval ), so I wouldn’t necessarily call it representative of your average housecat. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/35 "2008-07-08T21:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I’ll give you that one.But not this one. Anecdotal evidence is at this level of credibility. [/QUOTE] No it isn’t - unless you’re using some kind of weird boolean version of credibility. “I, and a number of my friends, have seen cats jump really quite surprisingly high” is not by any means the same class of claim as “I saw Elvis alive and well, working in BK” - it just _isn’t_. But That’s not really the point of this thread at all; the point of this thread is exactly as follows: We, that endured scorn and derision regarding our personal observations of the jumping ability of cats _ **were not actually wrong** _. In this particular case, the anecdotes, however much they are supposed to be despised, were in fact accurate - they were in fact _observations of reality_. I have no problem with anyone saying “look, that just sounds wrong, can you back it up?”, but you can take this ‘plural of anecdotes’ business too far - as I believe it was indeed taken in the linked thread. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/36 "2008-07-08T21:26:14Z")
I always marvel at [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZ3ZcorTF0) of a high jumper training when I see these kinds of threads. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/37 "2008-07-08T22:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Most cats will sit on the kitchen table too, but you will be hard pressed to find a cite from a reputable source. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I couldn’t read that whole thread, I was laughing too hard at this quote to go on, I love that line. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/38 "2008-07-08T23:13:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I have no problem with anyone saying “look, that just sounds wrong, can you back it up?” [/QUOTE] Which is pretty much exactly what **Blake** did say in that thread, and if there was any scorn or derision he was the target of a significant share of it. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/39 "2008-07-08T23:19:56Z")
It’s a shame that other thread is five years old, otherwise it might have been apposite to invite **Blake** to conduct an empirical scientific experiment. I would suggest a harness arrangement by which a naked **Blake** could be suspended horizontally from the ceiling in the centre of a completely empty room. Pilchards would then be fastened to his groinal area, and the harness would be adjusted so that this area was the lowest point of his body, and precisely six feet above the floor. A hungry and athletic cat, with really _sharp_ claws, would then be introduced into the room. I feel sure that **Blake** , backed up by every university professor in the land, would have volunteered with every confidence. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671/40 "2008-07-08T23:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Which is pretty much exactly what **Blake** did say in that thread, and if there was any scorn or derision he was the target of a significant share of it. [/QUOTE] Well, I can’t say it looked that way from my point of view, but some of that impression doubtless comes from the other times Blake has stubbornly and aggressively pulled the same trick on me (and was wrong those times too). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-that-thread-with-the-dumb-argument-about-jumping-cats/455671.md?page=3)