# Remember those children who were taken from their parents at the border in 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 11, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515 "2023-04-11T14:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/41 "2023-12-12T02:04:55Z")
Agreed, really. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/42 "2023-12-12T18:08:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Matt Albence Okay, how about he is in prison for the rest of his natural life so the only contact he has with and children he has is through a plexiglass window? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/43 "2023-12-12T18:37:35Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Okay, how about he is in prison for the rest of his natural life so the only contact he has with and children he has is through a plexiglass window? That would probably be doing a kindness for the children. He’d be an evil, horrible parent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/44 "2023-12-12T18:45:48Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Okay, how about he is in prison for the rest of his natural life so the only contact he has with and children he has is through a plexiglass window? We didn’t use non contact visiting as a punishment. We used it as a security measure or at the prisoner’s request. If it was being used as a security measure, it was only used in cases where visitors had smuggled something to the prisoner in a previous visit. The key point was that limiting a prisoner’s access to his family was considered to be a serious issue. It was only done in the most limited way possible when there was a direct connection with a security problem like smuggling during visits. We would not use it as a general punishment because it was seen as being too severe. Even if a prisoner had committed a serious crime like killing another prisoner, we wouldn’t separate him from his family. Breaking family connections was seen as morally wrong. All of which emphasizes how morally wrong what Albence and Trump did. They were doing things that we drew a line on in maximum security prisons. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/45 "2023-12-12T18:52:10Z")
It is the effect, not whether it is _intended_ as punishment that matters to me. Just like it was for Albence. The man deserves no pity for what he deliberately did. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/46 "2023-12-12T19:17:53Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > It is the effect, not whether it is _intended_ as punishment that matters to me. > > Just like it was for Albence. The man deserves no pity for what he deliberately did. I disagree. I feel Albence was knowingly doing this as intentional punishment. This wasn’t just some unforeseen incidental harm caused by negligence. I pointed out back in 2018 that these family breakups could have easily been avoided. All the agents needed to do was set up a routine program of fingerprinting children when they were separated from their parents. This would have made it possible to reliably reunite children and parents in the future. I’m not a genius. I was able to see this because this is a routine procedure used in hospitals, social services, disaster management, and law enforcement. So I’m sure the people running the detention centers thought of this and suggested it to Albence and others. If such a routine program wasn’t set up it’s because Albence and the others in charge made a decision not to set it up. They were deliberately seeking to make the family separations they were causing be irreversible. Albence clearly intended to permanently break up families. That is a horribly immoral act and he should spend the rest of his life in prison for it. So should the other people who set up the program with this purpose. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/47 "2023-12-12T19:47:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > All the agents needed to do was set up a routine program of fingerprinting children when they were separated from their parents. Barring that, they could have tattooed numbers on their arms. 😠 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/48 "2023-12-13T01:26:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They were deliberately seeking to make the family separations they were causing be irreversible. To this day I wonder whether some of the more adoptable children were sold to people so desperate to get a child that they’d turn a blind eye to how the kid became available. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/49 "2023-12-13T03:01:24Z")
To this day I wonder how many are still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/50 "2023-12-13T04:01:34Z")
With the “every accusation is a confession” from the Trumpers, I wonder about their accusations of a pedophile ring. \< shudder \> ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/51 "2023-12-13T04:26:32Z")
The decades of psychological harm that result from such a cruel and pointless policy fails to burnish America’s global reputation and sometimes progressive policies. One hopes Biden would have done everything possible to reverse the more objectionable effluvia inherited from the previous administration. I do not know to what extent this was done. However, probably much more could have been done to right this wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/52 "2023-12-13T11:46:49Z")
As long as blame can be shifted to Biden, we’re all good. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/53 "2023-12-13T13:21:56Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I do not know to what extent this was done. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/54 "2023-12-13T14:01:20Z")
Yeah. I’m not interested in blaming Biden for Trump’s outrageous policies nor Trump’s enablers who lack basic humanity. But in some cases these have not been changed due to obfuscation, politics or lack of will. I have no doubt he tried to ameliorate this particular stinkbomb. Has he been able to resolve this problem? Biden seems a decent man and a good president in a difficult environment, but his progress on immigration seems limited… > **[The Unraveling of the Trump Era](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/which-trump-regulations-were-overturned-biden/619583/)** > > The Trump administration desperately wanted to cut government benefits, and it had outside help to do so. But very few of its new rules held up. > **[How Joe Biden and Donald Trump's border policies compare](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65574725)** > > President Biden promised a more humane approach but his border policy has been sharply criticised too. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/55 "2023-12-13T14:41:41Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > his progress on immigration seems limited… Do you think it could have something to do with: > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > a difficult environment ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/56 "2023-12-13T15:14:09Z")
Of course. But the polarization and partisanship has been a reality for some time and is unlikely to change in the short term. Presidential powers are more limited than many suppose. This explains a lot, but absolves less. But in no way do I mean to suggest a false equivalence between the degree of responsibility, humanity or hubris between Biden and Trump and their minions. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/57 "2023-12-13T16:55:15Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Presidential powers are more limited than many suppose. They are especially limited when the other party has made it their mission to discredit the President and block his every step. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > This explains a lot, but absolves less. So let’s fully comprehend the reality that Biden is up against, and still withhold absolution from him for what he has **not** been able to get done in spite of those obstacles. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515/58 "2023-12-13T17:58:51Z")
A president is judged by their accomplishments. It’s not an entry level job. As a Canadian, I think Biden is vastly preferable to Trump. I like Biden as a person and think he understands most issues. But my opinion is irrelevant. 55.5% of Americans disapprove of Biden according to 538, and whatever those reasons, Trump remains competitive. I’m sure there are many areas where Biden wishes he could have done more. I hope that this is not one of those. I really don’t know if it is. I am not withholding absolution, but it is not fully complete if the problem has not been strongly addressed. This in no way minimizes the responsibility of Trump and his enablers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remember-those-children-who-were-taken-from-their-parents-at-the-border-in-2018/982515.md?page=2)