# Remembering 09/11/2001 -- what are the lessons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716 "2015-09-11T21:09:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/1 "2015-09-11T21:09:54Z")
Today is the 15th anniversary of Osama bin Laden’s little unauthorized demolition project. What lessons should we take from that event? The most obvious is to keep up vigilance against foreign enemies – but, that is really a lesson for the military, intelligence and law-enforcement agencies, who might have thwarted the plot if they had been watching for some such thing. For the rest of us private citizens, the lesson should be, watch very carefully how you react, or allow your leaders to react, to upsetting or threatening events. E.g., the federal law-enforcement agencies used the attacks as an opportunity to bundle together a laundry-list of things they had long wanted as the USA PATRIOT ACT, giving them much broader discretion to operate, and Congress gave it to them with hardly a dissenting whisper; perhaps not the best of ideas in hindsight. Then Congress created the Department of Homeland Security, clustering together a bunch of agencies already existing under a new umbrella agency – not too bad an idea, I suppose, but only a reorganization, and has it really been worth it? And, worst of all, the W Admin used the attacks to whip up fervor to invade Iraq with the stated goal of regime change. Which is rather like FDR responding to the Pearl Harbor attack by invading Brazil. The only al-Qaeda presence in Iraq at the time was in Iraqi Kurdistan, the one part of the country Hussein did not control. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/2 "2015-09-11T21:15:01Z")
I agree with all your lessons except math. 14th anniversary. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/3 "2015-09-11T21:56:41Z")
I had history class that day. We talked about recent events instead of what we were supposed to. The only thing I had to say was that I feared it would turn the entire country against Muslims. It wasn’t too hard to predict, and I’m ashamed at how right I was. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/4 "2015-09-11T22:10:11Z")
Maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself or your country. A reaction of fear and shock is understandable when confronted with an unprecedented event like that. And fear and shock are never the best counsellors. Of course now, 14 years later, it is about time for your country to have come out of that fear and shock. And from what I can see from afar, most of you have. Lesson learned? Maybe that things like that \*can \*happen and that it will never be possible to make entirely sure that they do not. If they should ever happen again, hope is that Americans will remember that they have gone through this before and the fear and shock will have less of an impact. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/5 "2015-09-11T22:20:30Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself or your country. A reaction of fear and shock is understandable when confronted with an unprecedented event like that. And fear and shock are never the best counsellors. Of course now, 14 years later, it is about time for your country to have come out of that fear and shock. And from what I can see from afar, most of you have. > > Lesson learned? Maybe that things like that \*can \*happen and that it will never be possible to make entirely sure that they do not. If they should ever happen again, hope is that Americans will remember that they have gone through this before and the fear and shock will have less of an impact. Too much partisan mumbo jumbo. On December 7th does the OP ruminate about how we over-responded to Pearl Harbor and locked up 150000 Japanese Americans? 9/11, like Pearl Harbor, were shocks to our system. We are used to being safe; protected by our oceans. Both FDR and GWB did what they thought was best in moments of extreem duress. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/6 "2015-09-11T22:44:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Both FDR and GWB did what they thought was best in moments of extreem duress. And both FDR, (in letting West Coast racists talk him into locking up thousands of people based on their ethnicity rather than for cause), and GWB, (in using the attack as an excuse to invade a country not involved with the attack), were completely wrong. Perhaps the lesson should be that when confronted with a horrendous emotional event, we should challenge any action that promotes violence against innocent people because it always turns out badly and involves corrupting our collective conscience. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/7 "2015-09-11T23:17:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And both FDR, (in letting West Coast racists talk him into locking up thousands of people based on their ethnicity rather than for cause), and GWB, (in using the attack as an excuse to invade a country not involved with the attack), were completely wrong. Perhaps the lesson should be that when confronted with a horrendous emotional event, we should challenge any action that promotes violence against innocent people because it always turns out badly and involves corrupting our collective conscience. I agree. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/8 "2015-09-11T23:47:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Today is the 15th anniversary of Osama bin Laden’s little unauthorized demolition project. What lessons should we take from that event? The most obvious is to keep up vigilance against foreign enemies – but, that is really a lesson for the military, intelligence and law-enforcement agencies, who might have thwarted the plot if they had been watching for some such thing. For the rest of us private citizens, the lesson should be, watch very carefully how you react, or allow your leaders to react, to upsetting or threatening events. E.g., the federal law-enforcement agencies used the attacks as an opportunity to bundle together a laundry-list of things they had long wanted as the USA PATRIOT ACT, giving them much broader discretion to operate, and Congress gave it to them with hardly a dissenting whisper; perhaps not the best of ideas in hindsight. Then Congress created the Department of Homeland Security, clustering together a bunch of agencies already existing under a new umbrella agency – not too bad an idea, I suppose, but only a reorganization, and has it really been worth it? And, worst of all, the W Admin used the attacks to whip up fervor to invade Iraq with the stated goal of regime change. Which is rather like FDR responding to the Pearl Harbor attack by invading Brazil. The only al-Qaeda presence in Iraq at the time was in Iraqi Kurdistan, the one part of the country Hussein did not control. It seems this can be summarized succinctly: don’t trust the government, ever. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/9 "2015-09-11T23:52:24Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > The only thing I had to say was that I feared it would turn the entire country against Muslims. It wasn’t too hard to predict, and I’m ashamed at how right I was. Assuming you’re referring to the United States, you were wrong. Few countries on earth provide an environment where all branches of Muslims can worship and practice freely and safely. The USA is one of those few. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/10 "2015-09-12T00:37:08Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > I feared it would turn the entire country against Muslims. It wasn’t too hard to predict, and I’m ashamed at how right I was. Presumably from your “entire country” you exclude US Muslims - whose population has increased from 1.1 million in 2001 to over 3 million today. (That’s a curious way for a country to show its near-unanimous rejection of a religion.) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/11 "2015-09-12T01:03:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And both FDR, (in letting West Coast racists talk him into locking up thousands of people based on their ethnicity rather than for cause), and GWB, (in using the attack as an excuse to invade a country not involved with the attack), were completely wrong. Perhaps the lesson should be that when confronted with a horrendous emotional event, we should challenge any action that promotes violence against innocent people because it always turns out badly and involves corrupting our collective conscience. Another very bad lesson was that GWB, unlike the previous presidents, thought that it was a good idea to set the precedent to not seek funds to pay for the costs of a war. > **[The Cost Of War](https://www.forbes.com/2009/11/25/shared-sacrifice-war-taxes-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html)** > > Are Americans willing to pay it? > [@](#): > > George W. Bush initiated two major wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but adamantly refused to pay for either of them by cutting non-military spending or raising taxes. Indeed, at his behest, Congress actually cut taxes and established a massive new entitlement program, Medicare Part D. > > Bush’s actions were unprecedented. During every previous major war in American history, presidents demanded sacrifices from rich and poor alike. As Robert Hormats explains in his 2007 book, The Price of Liberty: Paying for America’s Wars, “During most of America’s wars, parochial desires–such as tax breaks for favored groups or generous spending for influential constituencies–have been sacrificed to the greater good. The president and both parties in Congress have come together … to cut nonessential spending and increase taxes.” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/12 "2015-09-12T01:42:03Z")
Leaders throughout history have used threats from within and without as excuses to increase the power of the state and intrude into citizen’s lives. A more original lesson is you can’t simulate the collapse of a skyscraper by building a scale model made of popsicle sticks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/13 "2015-09-12T02:26:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Both FDR and GWB did what they thought . . . Not true in the latter case. “Thought” is far too strong a word. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/14 "2015-09-12T02:41:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not true in the latter case. “Thought” is far too strong a word. Please. You know this line of reasoning is the lefty equivalent of Glen Beck shtick. While its perfectly reasonable to disagree in the strongest terms with GWB, no credible person thinks he did anything other than what he thought was right. All leaders make mistakes. Lincoln stuck with McClellan long after it was clear that he wasnt upto the job and his decision prolonged the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/15 "2015-09-12T03:24:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Please. You know this line of reasoning is the lefty equivalent of Glen Beck shtick. While its perfectly reasonable to disagree in the strongest terms with GWB, no credible person thinks he did anything other than what he thought was right. All leaders make mistakes. Lincoln stuck with McClellan long after it was clear that he wasnt upto the job and his decision prolonged the Civil War. Lincoln still got rid of McClelland. Besides not funding the war properly, Bush then resorted to torture [(that was a piece that led us to war)](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0611-abramowitz-torture-false-lead-20150611-story.html) and cherry picked information to go to war, and then made it worse by listening to guys like Chalabi into [disbanding the army](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2007/09/who_disbanded_the_iraqi_army.html) and the police of Iraq. Unfortunately there was no superior there to fire Bush for incompetent, and of course as a final insult Bush showed up lately with his estimation that he still was right in invading Iraq. Denying a mistake is another mistake. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/16 "2015-09-12T11:31:04Z")
The main lesson (yet to be learned) is that a nation like the USA can spend billions on intelligence, and never use the intelligence. The warnings given to the CIA, FBI, etc., were totally ignored. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/17 "2015-09-12T11:40:32Z")
We should also be more careful about cleaning up the site of an attack like that. Too many of the people that helped to clean up the 9/11 location have died and or become ill. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/18 "2015-09-12T11:54:26Z")
I read somewhere that after the attack they hired Hollywood screenwriters to come up with any and all kinds of ways the US could be attacked. Maybe we should have done that in the past? Have a creative team outside the usual loop of the security community, come up with ideas of how to get around security and conduct a surprise attack? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/19 "2015-09-12T15:06:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And both FDR, (in letting West Coast racists talk him into locking up thousands of people based on their ethnicity rather than for cause), and GWB, (in using the attack as an excuse to invade a country not involved with the attack), were completely wrong. Perhaps the lesson should be that when confronted with a horrendous emotional event, we should challenge any action that promotes violence against innocent people because it always turns out badly and involves corrupting our collective conscience. Lest we forget the corporate media, the fifth estate in a democracy, wasn’t just horribly compliant, it didn’t just cower. It broke. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716/20 "2015-09-12T15:41:23Z")
**LESSONS FROM 9/11/01** • The world is small and interconnected; and if there is social tension and strife and American policies are thought by some to be implicated in it, their reaction will be manifeted here in our own front yard, not just way over there somewhere else. • Our police, army, government cannot protect us from everything. As long as there are people with malicious intent, they will occasionally succeed in doing malicious things. • Reciprocally, the desire to stop all malicious activity and thereby be made safe tends to infringe on our own freedoms, usually with more impact on our freedoms than on our lack of safety. • Contrary to my own worries and fears, it turns out that our society is not so uniformly kneejerk in its reactions: yes there was a rush to condemn everyone and everything Muslim, but there was a solid pushback against that as well; yes there was a rush to embrace elements of a police state in the hope for safety and security, but there’s been a long steady backlash against that as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remembering-09-11-2001-what-are-the-lessons/730716.md?page=2)