# Remind me again why God is to be thanked for the Chilean Miners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195 "2010-10-14T23:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/41 "2010-10-15T13:52:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There ain’t no Devil, there’s only God when he’s drunk. As I said, he’s like a good husband. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/42 "2010-10-15T14:13:31Z")
**EinsteinsHund** : No, but I’m unclear on the relationship between your question and what I said. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/43 "2010-10-15T14:31:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > **EinsteinsHund** : No, but I’m unclear on the relationship between your question and what I said. You posted your analogy I quoted in response to this quote from the OP: > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1)If God is to be thanked for delivering them, is he not equally to be blamed for allowing them to get into that fix in the first place? > > Suppose my neighbor gives me a loaf of banana bread on Tuesday. Should I immediately blame her for the fact that I didn’t receive of loaf of banana bread on Monday. If not, then it seems you understand the notion that when we receive a gift, getting mad about not receiving more gifts earlier is not a good wya to respond. I just thought that your banana bread analogy is quite skewed, and that mine is more in the vein of the original quote. Anybody please correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/44 "2010-10-15T14:43:07Z")
Too late to edit: Just like the answer to my theoretical question is no (your answer), there’s no reason for a theist to thank his god for the rescue of the Chilean miners. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/45 "2010-10-15T14:48:13Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Suppose my neighbor gives me a loaf of banana bread on Tuesday. Should I immediately blame her for the fact that I didn’t receive of loaf of banana bread on Monday. If your neighbor is the sole source of all foods, including banana bread, and withheld it from you until Tuesday, who should get the blame? If you receive banana bread every day on a regular basis, but this time your neighbor says that you don’t get any food until the rest of your neighborhood constructs a monument to him, who do you thank when the structure is completed and you get your food? ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/46 "2010-10-15T16:07:35Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@Valteron](#): > > > > As the final Chilean miners are brought to the surface, once again we hear a chorus of praise for “God” for delivering them. Not the devoted people and scientific equipment that got them out, but the invisible magic guy in the sky. > > Please provide a cite for this claim. A very simple [google search](http://www.google.com/search?q=thanking+god+chile+miners&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=4Nn&sa=G&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&prmd=nl&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=yHm4TMjjJIW8lQe0yfC1DA&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQqAIwAA) provides ample cites. A web survey done by a [Chilean newspaper](http://www.elespectador.com/) shows that 40% of the people who responded think that the miners were rescued by miracles (Milagro) and not science (Ciencia). Asking for cites for people thanking god for something good that happened is like asking for cites for keyboards and monitors. > [@](#): > > Suppose my neighbor gives me a loaf of banana bread on Tuesday. Should I immediately blame her for the fact that I didn’t receive of loaf of banana bread on Monday. If not, then it seems you understand the notion that when we receive a gift, getting mad about not receiving more gifts earlier is not a good wya to respond. This analogy has nothing to do with the miners in Chile. **EinsteinsHund** ’s analogy about someone trapping you in a basement, providing you with food, and telling you that they’re release you in a few months is much more parallel. Would you thank that person for the miracle of releasing you? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. Why is it that when something good happens, theists are soooo certain they can discern God’s loving kindness in the event. But when something bad happens, it’s time for theists to roll their eyes, shrug their shoulders, and quote you some passage about how the ways of God are mysterious and we cannot understand his purposes. > > Please either provide cites to prove that your characterization of theists in this question is accurate or else admit that the question is invalid. [First hit on google: why do bad things happen to good people?](http://www.gotquestions.org/bad-things-good-people.html) > [@](#): > > Yes, sometimes bad things happen to people who seem undeserving of them. But God allows things to happen for His reasons, whether or not we understand them. Above all, however, we must remember that God is good, just, loving, and merciful. Often things happen to us that we simply cannot understand. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/47 "2010-10-15T16:14:27Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > All good is due to God, all evil due to man’s wickedness. For eaxample, Hurricane Katrina was caused by voodoo. The Haitian earthquake was caused by the Haitian people’s pact with the Devil. And voodoo. Of course most natural disasters are caused by gays. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/48 "2010-10-15T16:46:07Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > As the final Chilean miners are brought to the surface, once again we hear a chorus of praise for “God” for delivering them. Not the devoted people and scientific equipment that got them out, but the invisible magic guy in the sky. Many the miners themselves thanked God. You think they are stupid, but really what business is that of yours what they do? Until you have walked a mile in a man’s boots, you don’t have a clue what makes him tick. Perhaps you yourself have stayed a month or two in a mine 700 metres underground, initially certain you were doomed? If not why don’t you try that, and then come back and instruct the world what or whom everybody ought to thank? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/49 "2010-10-15T16:51:20Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > > [@Valteron](#): > > > > As the final Chilean miners are brought to the surface, once again we hear a chorus of praise for “God” for delivering them. Not the devoted people and scientific equipment that got them out, but the invisible magic guy in the sky. > > Many the miners themselves thanked God. You think they are stupid, but really what business is that of yours what they do? Until you have walked a mile in a man’s boots, you don’t have a clue what makes him tick. Perhaps you yourself have stayed a month or two in a mine 700 metres underground, initially certain you were doomed? If not why don’t you try that, and then come back and instruct the world what or whom everybody ought to thank? Being an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation doesn’t give special insight into the nature of reality. Thanking God is moronic. If God existed and gave one nugget of shit for those people he would have averted the mine collapse and not stranded them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/50 "2010-10-15T16:53:20Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > As the final Chilean miners are brought to the surface, once again we hear a chorus of praise for “God” for delivering them. Not the devoted people and scientific equipment that got them out, but the invisible magic guy in the sky. > > So, although I am certain that debates along these lines have been held 10 million times on SDMB, let’s make it 10,000,001. > > My questions are: > > 1)If God is to be thanked for delivering them, is he not equally to be blamed for allowing them to get into that fix in the first place Clearly it was Odin who is to be blamed for getting them in the fix in the first place. When we thank God for their deliverance, we mean _Bailey_. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/51 "2010-10-15T17:06:16Z")
So, and correct me if I’m wrong here, but the OPs real problem seems to be not so much that people are thanking a god of some sort for the survival and “rescue” of the miners in Chile, but that there wasn’t the same attention paid to, or even coverage of, cursing a particular god-figure for the death of other miners like those in the WV explosion or the Crandall Canyon one in Utah? If there were people on TV saying, “We feel like god really let us down on this one. We figured he’d save those miners, but, well, nope. Really disappointing.” you’d be okay with the balance? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/52 "2010-10-15T17:08:26Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Being an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation doesn’t give special insight into the nature of reality. Perhaps being an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation gives you special insight into how best to be an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation. Perhaps being in a really extreme situation, like being trapped 700 metres underground and certain you are going to die, gives you a special insight which living a safe, protected and comfortable life in a Western city doesn’t? > [@Lobohan](#): > > Thanking God is moronic. If God existed and gave one nugget of shit for those people he would have averted the mine collapse and not stranded them in the first place. So, you think you are able to speak for the entirety of humanity and what makes sense and what is moronic for everybody to do? And why the assumption that the miners could have thanked both all the devoted people, and the scientific equipment and “the invisible magic guy in the sky”? One doesn’t rule out the others, and of all the problems we have in the world, I rather think that being overly thankful is not high on the list. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/53 "2010-10-15T17:10:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Suppose my neighbor gives me a loaf of banana bread on Tuesday. Should I immediately blame her for the fact that I didn’t receive of loaf of banana bread on Monday. If not, then it seems you understand the notion that when we receive a gift, getting mad about not receiving more gifts earlier is not a good wya to respond. Do you have children? Do you give them all presents on their birthdays or just some of them? Even if they are equally well-behaved? Better yet, are you unfair and arbitrary when it comes to protectimg them from injury or helping them if they become injured? Oh, and what if your neighbor took credit for banana bread that you made yourself? After all, you can’t prove she’s not a witch who cast a spell on you to make you buy the ingredients, mix them up and bake them, all then while making it appear as though no magic was involved. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/54 "2010-10-15T17:25:36Z")
Most of the discussion seems to be pertaining to the OP’s first question. I haven’t seen it pointed out that the second matter– > [@Valteron](#): > > 1. Why is it that when something good happens, theists are soooo certain they can discern God’s loving kindness in the event. But when something bad happens, it’s time for theists to roll their eyes, shrug their shoulders, and quote you some passage about how the ways of God are mysterious and we cannot understand his purposes. Funny, you seemed to understand his purposes pretty damn well when good stuff happens! –isn’t so unreasonable. Why should God’s motives always be scrutable? _Human beings_ baffle me sometimes. Understanding _why_ someone does what they do is nice, but lack of it doesn’t prevent us from making judgments about the behavior. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > In other words the answer is ‘B’. They are being punished indiscriminately for the sins of others that they have no involvement in and no control over. Some god you have there. Yes, He is rather a bastard. _Whatever_ His motives are, I would not wish to spend eternity in the company of such a person. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/55 "2010-10-15T17:26:42Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Being an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation doesn’t give special insight into the nature of reality. > > Perhaps being an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation gives you special insight into how best to be an uneducated laborer in a shitty situation. Perhaps being in a really extreme situation, like being trapped 700 metres underground and certain you are going to die, gives you a special insight which living a safe, protected and comfortable life in a Western city doesn’t? I’m certain that being an uneducated laborer in a recently third-world country increases the chances you’ll be religious. That makes it understandable. But it doesn’t make it smart. I don’t blame the individual miners for doing something illogical. I blame poverty and the over-arching stupidity of organized religion for smashing their minds. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Thanking God is moronic. If God existed and gave one nugget of shit for those people he would have averted the mine collapse and not stranded them in the first place. > [@](#): > > So, you think you are able to speak for the entirety of humanity and what makes sense and what is moronic for everybody to do? > > And why the assumption that the miners could have thanked both all the devoted people, and the scientific equipment and “the invisible magic guy in the sky”? One doesn’t rule out the others, and of all the problems we have in the world, I rather think that being overly thankful is not high on the list. I would assume that they are giving the majority of thanks to the deity in question. A miner mentioned God and the Devil, and God winning, not Rocks and a multi-national team of engineers and scientists winning. ---
**Author:** ![mailman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@mailman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mailman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/56 "2010-10-15T17:40:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Because it was god who saved them. > Of course it was god that trapped them underground too. God likes to put spin on the ball. When I watch football on Sunday, it occurs to me that God is really quite a sports fan too, and he seems to play favorites with select wide receivers, as opposed to those faceless linemen. Of course those fat linemen dudes rarely “praise” God publicly after they make a tackle either, so maybe it’s just tit for tat. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/57 "2010-10-15T18:17:25Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And why the assumption that the miners could have thanked both all the devoted people, and the scientific equipment and “the invisible magic guy in the sky”? One doesn’t rule out the others… But what ruled _in_ the notion that supernatural intervention took place? > [@](#): > > …and of all the problems we have in the world, I rather think that being overly thankful is not high on the list. “Thanking” isn’t the issue here, superstition is. Some people think that government should adopt policies that supposedly please God so He’ll perform miracles to solve our problems, and this can’t help but get in the way of real-world efforts to solve them. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom\_Is\_Not\_Free](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Freedom\_Is\_Not\_Free](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom_Is_Not_Free)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/58 "2010-10-15T19:10:51Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Freedom\_Is\_Not\_Free](#): > > > > God gave us free will. If God interferes, no free will. > > Why would we lose our free will if God were to interfere? Did the miners lose their free will when the rescuers interfered? Good point. I don’t know how it works better than anybody else. But to your argument, free will is not extinguished by others. For example, you want to live breathe, somebody comes along and kills you. Does free will then not exist? We live in an environment, that environment (i.e. bacteria, storms, etc. etc.) can significantly alter your path. However, we all have the ability to some extent or another to change our fate. Back to the murderer, to avoid such a tragic end one could hide in a bunker. Most of us, by our own free will, choose not to. The miners free will did not cease just because good natured people had the will to save them. My point is free will would not exist at all if anytime we did something reckless or harmful to others God swooped in and put a bubble around us. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/59 "2010-10-15T20:30:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > All good is due to God, all evil due to man’s wickedness. My initial reaction was that this was a bit of sarcasm, and that you put it very distinctly. Then I recalled your new name from the name-change ATMB thread, and I remembered that you were Curtis. So, you actually… believe this… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195/60 "2010-10-15T20:43:09Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > > > All good is due to God, all evil due to man’s wickedness. > > My initial reaction was that this was a bit of sarcasm, and that you put it very distinctly. > > Then I recalled your new name from the name-change ATMB thread, and I remembered that you were Curtis. > > So, you actually… believe this… > > :dubious: It really seems that only fear would drive worship of a God that sets up such a system. Such a supreme-being is a horrifying evil monster, not something to laud and sing about. Worship Him because you’re afraid, fine. But why do it with gusto? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-again-why-god-is-to-be-thanked-for-the-chilean-miners/557195.md?page=4)