# Remind me what happens if I don't let police search my car? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654 "2009-04-10T15:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![dustinsquarepants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@dustinsquarepants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dustinsquarepants)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/141 "2009-04-24T05:05:49Z")
koxinga, if by “own approach to law enforcement” you mean we’re doing really good for a city of our population with the dangerously low number of officers on the force, then I guess we’re guilty of having less violent crime than other metro areas due to “our approach”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/142 "2009-04-24T05:32:37Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > koxinga, if by “own approach to law enforcement” you mean we’re doing really good for a city of our population with the dangerously low number of officers on the force, then I guess we’re guilty of having less violent crime than other metro areas due to “our approach”. Violating rights never ends up helping with Law and Order. However, Houston has a violent crime rate of \*\*1132. \*\* Cities by population NYC =614. LA= 718 Houston= 1132. Phoenix = 724 Phil= 1475 San Antonio= 556 San Diego=502 Dallas = 1069 San Jose= 402. > **[List of United States cities by crime rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate)** > > The following table of United States cities by crime rate is based on Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) statistics from 2024 for the 200 most populous cities in America that have reported data to the FBI UCR system. > The population numbers are based on U.S. Census estimates for the year end. The number of murders includes nonnegligent manslaughter. This list is based on the reporting. In most cases, the city and the reporting agency are identical. However, in Nashvil... In other words, of the ten largest cities (we don’t have good data for Chicago) your city has the second highest violent crime rate, nearly 3X that of the lowest (San Jose). You are not doing “really good”. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![dustinsquarepants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@dustinsquarepants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dustinsquarepants)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/143 "2009-04-24T05:59:43Z")
drdeth, according to [worst-city.com](http://worst-city.com), houston isn’t that high on the list. so I guess we can throw stats back and forth, or we can not… this isn’t a debating forum, so it’d be pointless to point out that ny and chicago (#1 and #2 police forces by # of officers) have more officers per person than we do, and are in worse condition crime-wise. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/144 "2009-04-24T13:33:54Z")
Considering how much police work is actually paper work, don’t your superiors and ADAs complain about the all lower case no carriage return thing? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/145 "2009-04-24T14:41:35Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > I know that it’s true that a lot of misconduct isn’t always reported like it should be. But your claim is a sweeping generalization that cannot be supported. Okay, I did get a little carried away there. I should have said “A hell of a lot of cops won’t report their co-worker’s misdeeds”. See **dustinsquarepants** post, above, mentioning snitches. So, I’ll modify my claim to be a simple generalization. Maybe it would help if the whole police society would be a little less secretive? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/146 "2009-04-24T18:07:13Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > . . . maybe you tried out to be a cop and were not fit enough . . . > > . . . I can say with 100% certainty that I do a job that YOU could not. Well, DSyoung **esq** probably [failed the police IQ test](http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/09/nyregion/metro-news-briefs-connecticut-judge-rules-that-police-can-bar-high-iq-scores.html), since he got into law school. But how can you be 100% certain that he couldn’t be a police officer? It’s not a job that requires an inordinate amount of inborn talent. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/147 "2009-04-24T18:10:50Z")
Do I count three cops in this thread? Cops who are not **dustinsquarepants** , I invite you to register your opinion of **dustinsquarepants** ’ presentation of his profession in this thread. ETA: Apologies if you already have and I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/148 "2009-04-24T18:12:06Z")
Has anyone addressed the cop says “he said he would consent to the search” angle ? Because that seems to be one friggin big loophole when its just you and the po-po in the middle of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/149 "2009-04-24T18:33:58Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Has anyone addressed the cop says “he said he would consent to the search” angle ? > > Because that seems to be one friggin big loophole when its just you and the po-po in the middle of nowhere. I think someone said that the department would investigate if they got several complaints of an officer doing that. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/150 "2009-04-24T18:43:26Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I think someone said that the department would investigate if they got several complaints of an officer doing that. thanks for the input on the thread, but that “fact” seems to be about as useless as tits on a boar hog when it comes to them searching your vehicle! Not shooting the messenger here, just the message 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/151 "2009-04-24T18:48:47Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Has anyone addressed the cop says “he said he would consent to the search” angle ? Sure, it can happen and probably does now and then. However, MOST of us aren’t willing to risk our careers just to get a look in your car. Get caught, you’re out. First, I don’t care what the justification, I won’t tarnish the badge by lying. Second, you could always have a recording device in your car, or some bystander could be filiming. Third, **Hi Opal!** (always wanted to do that, even if most people think it’s stupid) ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/152 "2009-04-24T18:51:25Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Cops who are not **dustinsquarepants** , I invite you to register your opinion of **dustinsquarepants** ’ presentation of his profession in this thread. Yeah, he doesn’t make us look good. Too defensive and arrogant for my tastes, and he obviously hasn’t been on the job very long. A lot of that comes from the agency for which you work. Each one develops a personality, and some can be very arrogant. It’s just how he’s learned to present himself, and doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s a bad person or a bad cop. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/153 "2009-04-24T18:56:57Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > thanks for the input on the thread, but that “fact” seems to be about as useless as tits on a boar hog when it comes to them searching your vehicle! People will always be able to lie. That’s arguably a large part of what the constitution tries to address. The court is, among other things, a truthfinding body. Evidence gets tossed out not because we want guilty people to go free, but because we find that it’s the best way to keep the cops and prosecutors from lying by falsifying evidence. We have the right to confront witnesses to have the opportunity to show they are lying when they claim you consented, and the results of that search get thrown out. Barring magic lassos, there is no real way to stop a cop from lying about what he saw or what evidence he found. But the system has rules in place to minimize the damage done. One of the most effective steps being taken (as was mentioned above) is the addition of cameras to patrol cars. But even that won’t stop the cop from abusing their authority if they want to – it just makes the costs for the officer (and the rest of the enforcement system) higher. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/154 "2009-04-24T20:17:10Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > at least here in tx, we don’t need consent for 99% of the stops. you were pulled over, why? chances are it was a moving violation in which case we MAY arrest you. arrested? your vehicle will be “inventoried” (a la, searched) prior to it being towed. if we (I say we cause I am a p.o.) want to search, we will. sure it’s a lot of power and not all may agree with us having it, but until you change the laws which apply to you and your privacy don’t complain when you say “no” and are searched anyway. and just cause we arrest you doesn’t mean we can’t search, find nothing, and un-arrest you and let you go. > [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > lol ds, never once did I say that _I_ went around doing that, just that it can happen, which is what the op was asking. Actually, yes, you did say you did it. “We” includes the person making the comment. And based on your other comments here, I would have little reason to believe a statement on your part that you do not do it, just your fellow officers. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why you have such a $%#@'n grudge against me personally, maybe you tried out to be a cop and were not fit enough, or whatever, but dude, get over it. I consider myself a very moral person and I stick to them, in which case it’s _you_ who have zero room to talk, because you don’t know me. but I forget, you’re the typical armchair quarterback who has all the answers and knows not how to answer. I can say with 100% certainty that I do a job that YOU could not. but be sure to say that you could do it better, even though you’ll do nothing but post a rude comment back on an internet board. I don’t have a “grudge” against you. Nor can I be certain what kind of officer you are. But I do know that you have asserted approvingly that an officer in Texas (actually, as it turns out, Houston, Texas, but hey, what the heck, why not tarnish the whole state while you are at it!) does not need to worry about things like warrants and consent, because you’ll simply engage in a pretext arrest and then use that arrest to engage in an inventory search of the vehicle, and if you don’t find anything, then unarrest the person. In other posts directed at **mangeorge** , you have asserted, in essence, that the end justifies your means. This is directly contrary to the whole spirit and moral underpinnings of our Constitution, especially the contents of Amendments 4 and 5 and 6, which make it clear that we as a nation are more concerned about the “means” than the “ends.” Even if we are CERTAIN in our minds that a person is “guilty,” we prefer to allow that person to maintain his/her liberty and privacy until such time as we have VALID reason to curtail it. Our hunches, suspicions, even well-founded conjectures on the subject are not valid reason to curtail the liberty and privacy of the people who live here in the United States. As an attorney, I have a ton of respect for officers of the law. And in my dealings with society, I’ve had no good reason to lose that respect in general; all my dealings with officers have been generally professional. I also understand, albeit from the outside in terms of the criminal system, how vitally important it is to have trustworthy officers for the proper and efficient administration of justice in America. THAT is why I find the concept that the ends justify the means employed to be something that requires a sharp rebuttal. That sort of approach, in the long run, does nothing to help justice, and indeed hurts it tremendously. If you don’t believe me, ask someone like **Bricker** , who has worked both sides of the criminal law milieu. Or, if that’s not satisfactory, ask your fellow officers on this message board. So it’s not you I have a grudge against. But the idea you have proffered needs to be shot down swiftly and surely. It must be stamped out wherever it takes root. It is anathema to our people; it undercuts our whole society and the social contract we enter into. I shall ridicule it wherever I see it, argue against it most vehemently, and portray it for what it is: the Anti-American Way. As for your “morality” as an officer, I have only what you have said to base my judgment upon. I’m not the only one with some reservations on that basis, you will note. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![dustinsquarepants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@dustinsquarepants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dustinsquarepants)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/155 "2009-04-24T21:46:11Z")
ds, no, I said “we” because it feels weird saying “they” when I’m referring to my co-workers. I don’t know what I said that comes off as arrogant, but to quote the dude, “that’s just like, your opinion, man” and is no skin off my back. I said previously I hadn’t been on the force very long, so thats nothing you’re discovering about me. my whole intent has been to answer the op’s question, and it has indeed been answered. this debate about what kind of cop I am is irrelevant, and will never prove anything because unless you get stopped by me or arrested by me, you have no clue to how arrogant or nice I really am. p.s: and all of our reports are either all caps, or written in block (caps) letters. the way I type on here does not reflect on my grammar or spelling in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/156 "2009-04-24T22:26:43Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > ds, no, I said “we” because it feels weird saying “they” when I’m referring to my co-workers. I don’t know what I said that comes off as arrogant, but to quote the dude, “that’s just like, your opinion, man” and is no skin off my back. > > I said previously I hadn’t been on the force very long, so thats nothing you’re discovering about me. my whole intent has been to answer the op’s question, and it has indeed been answered. this debate about what kind of cop I am is irrelevant, and will never prove anything because unless you get stopped by me or arrested by me, you have no clue to how arrogant or nice I really am. > > p.s: and all of our reports are either all caps, or written in block (caps) letters. the way I type on here does not reflect on my grammar or spelling in the real world. IRL (in the real world) is passe. This _is_ the real world. :eek: Now go to your room. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/157 "2009-04-24T22:58:06Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > ds, no, I said “we” because it feels weird saying “they” when I’m referring to my co-workers. I don’t know what I said that comes off as arrogant, but to quote the dude, “that’s just like, your opinion, man” and is no skin off my back. > > I said previously I hadn’t been on the force very long, so thats nothing you’re discovering about me. my whole intent has been to answer the op’s question, and it has indeed been answered. this debate about what kind of cop I am is irrelevant, and will never prove anything because unless you get stopped by me or arrested by me, you have no clue to how arrogant or nice I really am. > > p.s: and all of our reports are either all caps, or written in block (caps) letters. the way I type on here does not reflect on my grammar or spelling in the real world. I’ll speak up in your defense. What you said at the first of the thread may have been shocking, but the law in Texas was pretty much what you described, at least before the new U.S. Supreme Court decision. After _Atwater_, you could (and can) arrest for almost any traffic infraction in Texas, so there was nothing stopping law enforcement from arresting for a minor traffic violation commited in their view as a pretext for searching the vehicle, which some wryly referred to as “search incident to citation.” It didn’t seem to happen all that often, though; law enforcement seemed to realize that it was probably the search that least passed the “smell test” even if it looked legal on paper and generally preferred to look for clearer justification, like the automobile exception. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/158 "2009-04-25T00:23:50Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > punoqllads: yes, there are bad apples, but do you have a better system to put in place that will fill the policeman’s role with perfection? if you have a bad run-in with a cop it’s your duty to file an iad complaint, and (at least in our department) a certain number of those will initiate an investigation. that and we as cops only get so much protection from civil suits, if you’ve been wronged take action. Record every single traffic stop that is carried out on video with audio. Dual dvd. The person stopped gets a copy, and the police get a copy. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/159 "2009-04-25T01:14:07Z")
> [@dustinsquarepants](#): > > ds, no, I said “we” because it feels weird saying “they” when I’m referring to my co-workers. Please. It’s a little late in the thread for the “I wasn’t talking about me” defense. (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > sorry, but that’s not the way things work. what you armchair quarterback’d (said) may be true if we went around just stopping and harassing everyone to search without any rhyme or reason, in response to the OP’s question, **if you say “no” to a search, chances are you have something to hide**. while there are exceptions of course, **most officers** will pull you over because they suspect something isn’t right (driving at 3am in ghetto) and **will use this “hunch” to try and find whatever possible**. > [@](#): > > actually, searching incident to arrest (which is what it is if they’ve committed a crime, and are hence pulled over) is not a violation of the 4th. **you really think we’ve been doing this all these years and have been secretly getting away with it?** here’s your copy of internet tough guy magazine, go debate the current law one some other forum. I’m simply stating the way things are, and **the way the LAW allows us to search**. they spent a lot of time teaching us about the bill of rights and what we can and can’t do under the law. get over yourself or continue misinterpreting my statements, I don’t give to rats’ asses what you think. > [@](#): > > **I will go to work in a few minutes and do exactly what the op asked, search if I suspect I have a reason to. ever heard the phrase “it is what it is” ?** if you don’t like it, change it. the whole debating about it on the internet is pointless and a waste of time. enjoy your day, I hope the op’s question was answered. I guess that last bolded part didn’t imply that you will have a car 'inventoried" when you want to search but don’t have probable cause, eh? I doubt one person here is buying that, as what you said “is what it is.” > [@](#): > > koxinga, if by “own approach to law enforcement” you mean we’re doing really good for a city of our population with the dangerously low number of officers on the force, then I guess we’re guilty of having less violent crime than other metro areas due to “our approach”. What did this mean in the context **koxinga** was talking about? It didn’t mean that arresting and inventorying a car so you could get around not being legally able to search a vehicle without justifiable probable cause as being “good for a city of our population”? > [@](#): > > most officers will pull you over because they suspect something isn’t right (driving at 3am in ghetto) and will use this “hunch” to try and find whatever possible." Is that what you believe? That most officers will pull cars over for driving at 3 a.m. in a ghetto? And that they will try to search a car for that reason? And that driving late at night in a ghetto gives most cops “a hunch” that there’s something illegal in the car? You obviously believe that most cops aren’t as moral as yourself, do you? Because you’re not part of “most cops”, right? > [@](#): > > I don’t know what I said that comes off as arrogant Really?: > [@](#): > > but I forget, you’re the typical armchair quarterback who has all the answers and knows not how to answer. I can say with 100% certainty that I do a job that YOU could not. ---
**Author:** ![dustinsquarepants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@dustinsquarepants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dustinsquarepants)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654/160 "2009-04-25T01:49:20Z")
fantome, the only statement there that I use “I” was the one in the middle of your post, and I admit, it was written a little hastily. but the fact remains, I haven’t been on that long and don’t have the experience to know which cars are going to be the bad guys’s ones, so I haven’t had a need to practice these methods. and the last sentence isn’t arrogance, its a true statement, forgive me for having pride in doing what I do that everyone can not [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remind-me-what-happens-if-i-dont-let-police-search-my-car/492654.md?page=9)