# Reminisce about defunct sports rules **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538 "2010-12-09T15:36:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/41 "2010-12-10T13:04:33Z")
I’m a bit fuzzy on the history of NFL OT. Did OT start in 1974? Anyway, as it currently exists, ties are quite rare in the NFL, I think there may have been 2 in the past 5 years. My point was that you can rarely still get a tie in the NFL, but never again in the NCAA and never again in the NHL. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/42 "2010-12-10T14:16:46Z")
the offisde rule in (non-American) football should be turned back. If a player is offside, he is offside, none of this ‘active’ or not BS. If a none-active attacker finds himself off side it is his mistake and there is nothing wrong with ‘punishing’ his team for it. Under the present rules there is just too much ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/43 "2010-12-10T15:02:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > According to the [Wikipedia entry on field goals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_goal_%28American_and_Canadian_football%29#History), the goal posts were at the goal line at all levels of play, but the NCAA moved them to the end line in 1927 (the NFL followed suit, because the league used NCAA rules at that time). However, the NFL moved the posts _back_ to the goal line in 1932, where they stayed until 1974. > > ISTR that the reasoning for moving the posts to the goal line was to increase scoring by making field goals easier. However, since the 1970s, the league has made several moves to make kicking _more_ difficult (moving the goal posts, moving the kickoff line twice, and the adoption of the “K balls”). Even so, NFL kickers are far more accurate than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Domes. Fake turf. Hash marks closer together. Bright yellow goal posts. Soccer-style kickers. Fresh balls (haha… balls). Dedicated place kicker and holder who work as a team. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/44 "2010-12-10T15:03:30Z")
In the NHL you can no longer challenge the curve on an opponent’s stick. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/45 "2010-12-10T15:04:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I wish wandering goalies were fair game in hockey again. In the old days if a goalie wandered ,everybody watched to see who would cream him. There are no wandering goalies to be fair game any longer, due in large part to my submission to this thread: I miss when there was no trapezoid behind the goal in the NHL. Okay, so it’s more of a lament about the implementation of a rule, but I think it applies to the spirit of the OP. > [@BobLimDem](#): > > The two-line pass in the NHL The two-line pass is used, abused and relied on by NHL teams and has been since the lock-out. Did you mean you miss when it wasn’t a legal play? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/46 "2010-12-10T15:41:44Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > Long ago, Pitchers in baseball used to have to throw underhanded, to the spot where the batter requested them to throw. I miss that. Pitcher can still throw underhand, if they wish. The problem is that no one knows how to teach how to do it at the lower levels (and coaches will discourage their players from doing it, for the same reasons they discourage knuckleballers – they just don’t like the pitch). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/47 "2010-12-10T15:47:27Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Fresh balls (haha… balls). Those actually make kicking _more_ difficult, not less. A kicker would much rather kick a broken-in ball. It’ll be a little rounder, and a little softer (i.e., more “bounce” off of the foot). Teams used to be able to choose the ball that they would use on a kicking play – and they would choose balls that had been well broken-in. Back in the late 1970s, Russell Erxleben and Steve Little were booming 60-plus yard field goals and long punts – in part, because the SWC was letting them use their own balls, which they’d been breaking in during practice. Several years ago, the NFL instituted the “K-ball” rule. There is a special supply of balls kept for each game, with a small “K” stamp on them. These are specifically used for kicking plays, and they’re absolutely brand new. And, kickers hate 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/48 "2010-12-10T15:52:13Z")
I miss in baseball when the players got to lick the batter and then drink from the pitcher. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/49 "2010-12-10T17:28:43Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I wonder how the NFL would have turned out if they had kept the posts on the goal line… Watch a CFL game to find out. In the CFL, the goalposts are still on the goal line, though they are held up by a single pylon positioned in the end zone, a bit back of the goal line. It makes for interesting play in the end zone, when pass receivers are trying to keep an eye on the QB, the ball in the air, the man covering them, and the pylon. Interestingly, even though field goals would seem to be easier to make, as the distance from which they can be made is farther upfield, TDs are still the preferred method of scoring. Still, if your team is stymied on (say) the 45, you don’t punt; you might as well try it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/50 "2010-12-10T17:48:10Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > The two-line pass is used, abused and relied on by NHL teams and has been since the lock-out. Did you mean you miss when it wasn’t a legal play? Yes, I think the two-line pass ban was a good rule. I also hate the goalie trapezoid and I think once you leave your crease you should be fair game for a body check. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/51 "2010-12-10T19:04:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You missed when guys who were terrible athletes would come up and swung in the general direction of the pitch. You must also miss the fact that they would not pitch to the guy in front of the pitcher giving you 2 dead spots in every lineup. It was horrible. The DH is genius.It gets action in the game and more runs. It gives guys who are not great runners that can hi,t a career . It extends careers of players who may be hall of famers. > Whats not to like? It didn’t used to be so rare to see a pitcher who could also hit. The best baseball players are ones with more than one skill. Likewise, who wants to see a 40+ has-been with no knees hobbling up to the plate 4 or 5 times with nothing else to do in the game? You should have to be able to hit _and_ field at the big league level to stay in the big leagues. Also, managers still have to _manage_ in the National League. They have to think about the batting order before hooking a pitcher and be more judicious with the bench to allow for the need for pinch-hitting or a double switch late in the game. The AL game is\* boooooring \*because of the DH rule. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/52 "2010-12-10T19:36:31Z")
The Amer. League is much more interesting. it has more action and does not have 2 dead spots. Managing is way over rated. It is cookbook. Any 10 year old knows when a National League manager needs to make a move. Ortiz would probably be retired if the old fashioned league had their way. Pitch hitters are not all old players. Plenty are young power hitters. It would be perfect for Fielder who will eat himself out of the National league pretty soon. Yes it was rare to see a pitcher who could hit. That is why we remember them . Most are automatic outs who embarrass themselves at the plate. and kill rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/53 "2010-12-10T20:13:08Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > The AL game is\* boooooring \*because of the DH rule. And watching Larussa come out three times an inning, switch pitchers, have each pitcher warm up only to be replaced one batter later is exciting? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/54 "2010-12-10T20:37:26Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > It didn’t used to be so rare to see a pitcher who could also hit. The best baseball players are ones with more than one skill. Not really. There have been two pitchers in major league history who have been good enough hitters to hold down a lineup spot; otherwise, even the guys who were relatively good with the bat (like Walter Johnson or Bob Gibson) hit less than .250, without much power. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/55 "2010-12-10T20:49:37Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Not really. There have been two pitchers in major league history who have been good enough hitters to hold down a lineup spot OT: You’re referring to Ferrell and Ruth? Clarence Mitchell and Joe Wood would make three and four, and if you allow the 1800s. you have Monty Ward and a whole slew of guys. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/56 "2010-12-10T20:53:41Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > OT: You’re referring to Ferrell and Ruth? Clarence Mitchell and Joe Wood would make three and four, and if you allow the 1800s. you have Monty Ward and a whole slew of guys. I was considering saying “since the beginning of the 20th century” - actually, I didn’t know about Ferrell until I just did some googling - I was actually thinking of Rick Ankiel. [Here an interesting article](http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/hitting-pitchers/) on the subject - the graph says to me that pitchers were relatively better hitters in the pre-war years, but since 1950 or so have been pretty steadily dismal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/57 "2010-12-10T21:04:14Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > And watching Larussa come out three times an inning, switch pitchers, have each pitcher warm up only to be replaced one batter later is exciting? Ooh, but there’s the double-switch too, the very essence of managerial strategy. I could happily watch an NL manager make double switches all fucking day long. They never cease to amaze me with their subtle, nuanced sophistication. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/58 "2010-12-10T21:09:16Z")
Forgot about Ankiel. I imagine that hitting vs. pitching is like pretty much everything over the last 200 years: the level of achivement has steadily risen, necessitating specialization. One could speculate that if Greg Maddux had hurt his arm in the 1980s he could have carried on as a position player if he worked on his hitting, but his actual batting average over his career wouldn’t have kept him in the league. All that aside, it’s difficult for me to see the DH rule as a good thing aesthetically. I’m too young to remember pre-platoon football above the high school level–now THAT would have been fun to watch! ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/59 "2010-12-10T21:20:08Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > …it’s difficult for me to see the DH rule as a good thing aesthetically. There’s this: having the DH in the AL _only_ means that there actually is a difference between the leagues. I’d like to keep this distinction, rather than letting the leagues standardize _either_ way. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538/60 "2010-12-10T21:22:59Z")
All right, well, they don’t all have to be Babe Ruth. I guess a better way to state my point is that for a century, the basic structure of the game featured nine players on a team, each of whom was required to play both offense and defense. No special rules for any defensive position. If you wanted to play ball, you swung a bat. When it became ten players to a team, two of which are specialists playing only on one side of the ball, my opinion is that the game lost some of its elegance and integrity. No, I can’t prove that with statistics, but I happen to feel strongly about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reminisce-about-defunct-sports-rules/563538.md?page=4)