# Remote car starter that does not need installation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392 "2015-01-31T01:03:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/21 "2015-02-01T01:47:55Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The one in our car shuts off when you step on the brake unless you put the key in and turn it to the on position first. Then you can take off without restarting. That’s a good idea. I don’t recall seeing that in my manual but its easy enough to try. Thanks. I’ll find out in the morning when we leave for Church. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/22 "2015-02-01T01:57:24Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Granted, yeah, if your idea of warmed up is getting the cabin to temperatures appropriate for light baking I could see that taking 20 minutes of idling. But on a car with a functioning thermostat even in subzero temperatures you should be getting usable heat in 3-5 minutes or so and it should be warm enough to thaw the windows and such by probably no more than 10. Oh, also, the OP mentioned that it takes 20 minutes of driving for the car to warm up, not just idling. I can pretty much guarantee that’s a bad thermostat. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/23 "2015-02-01T02:02:13Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Oh, also, the OP mentioned that it takes 20 minutes of driving for the car to warm up, not just idling. I can pretty much guarantee that’s a bad thermostat. or it’s a diesel. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/24 "2015-02-01T02:07:31Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Oh, also, the OP mentioned that it takes 20 minutes of driving for the car to warm up, not just idling. I can pretty much guarantee that’s a bad thermostat. Not necessarily. The engine has to be warm enough to warm the air. We had a cold snap here a while ago where I drove 3-4 km before even one little square showed on the temperature gauge for the engine. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/25 "2015-02-01T02:49:01Z")
My VW Rabbit would not heat at idle. No matter how long you ran it, until you started moving, it would blow cold air. If you idled long enough, it would blow warm pretty much as soon as you started moving, but from a cold start it took about ten miles for the cabin to really warm up. Only thing I didn’t like about the car. I had the thermostat checked, but it was working properly. The engine just wasn’t big enough – or, if you prefer, it was too efficient – to produce waste heat at idle. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/26 "2015-02-01T03:03:21Z")
I had a seventy something VW Beetle that would begin to get warm as you reached your destination, regardless of distance. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/27 "2015-02-01T03:11:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I had a seventy something VW Beetle that would begin to get warm as you reached your destination, regardless of distance. Weren’t those engines air cooled? How did they create heat without warm radiator fluid going through the heater core? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/28 "2015-02-01T03:22:32Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Weren’t those engines air cooled? How did they create heat without warm radiator fluid going through the heater core? Yeah, they were air-cooled engines. There were various after market add ins to help with heating. I dunno how heat was made, but it sucked. I later had an MG midget with a soft top tha leaked cold air everywhere and was still warmer than my VW. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/29 "2015-02-01T03:59:56Z")
I always feel the need to leap to the defense of the air-cooled Beetle’s much-maligned heater system. Basically, the way it worked was that the main (belt-driven) engine fan blew air over the cylinders which then went through paper tubes down to air exchanger boxes mounted on the exhaust manifold. That air then went through some sort of cloth tube things into heater channels in the floorpan of the car, at which point there was a valve controlled by the driver that could let the hot air into the car (and either out two holes under the rear seat or to the front windshield). When everything was working correctly, the system actually worked pretty well. It was more than adequate for a Beetle, although maybe not for the yawning cavern that was the van. The problem is that you had to make sure the system was more or less airtight and a lot of owners didn’t. Also because the main engine fan essentially doubled as the blower fan, the amount of hot air getting into the cabin was dependent on the engine speed. That meant that the heat output at idle wasn’t always great, although that was also exacerbated by mechanics used to American cars setting the idle way too low. I shivered through the first winter I owned a Beetle cursing the heater like everyone else, but then I actually replaced the missing and broken ductwork and tuned it up properly which got me through several subsequent brutal Northern Rocky winters just fine. If you warmed it up by driving it lightly, it would actually start making heat a lot faster than a water cooled car. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/30 "2015-02-01T04:06:33Z")
_Now_ he tells me. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/31 "2015-02-01T05:26:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You can get an engine block heater that plugs into a 110 outlet overnight. They should be cheaper to install than a remote start. This is what I came to say. Years ago, I had to go work in an area much colder than my home. The first morning, my battery was dead, gone, couldn’t be jumped. It was towed to a garage, where besides a new battery, they strongly suggested a block heater. Every place had outlets to plug in. Once I moved back home I still plugged it in when the news said it would be cold in the morning. A warm car on a cold morning is wonderful. It wasn’t too expensive if I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/32 "2015-02-01T14:14:09Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > I always feel the need to leap to the defense of the air-cooled Beetle’s much-maligned heater system. > > Basically, the way it worked was that the main (belt-driven) engine fan blew air over the cylinders which then went through paper tubes down to air exchanger boxes mounted on the exhaust manifold. That air then went through some sort of cloth tube things into heater channels in the floorpan of the car, at which point there was a valve controlled by the driver that could let the hot air into the car (and either out two holes under the rear seat or to the front windshield). > > When everything was working correctly, the system actually worked pretty well. It was more than adequate for a Beetle, although maybe not for the yawning cavern that was the van. The problem is that you had to make sure the system was more or less airtight and a lot of owners didn’t. Also because the main engine fan essentially doubled as the blower fan, the amount of hot air getting into the cabin was dependent on the engine speed. That meant that the heat output at idle wasn’t always great, although that was also exacerbated by mechanics used to American cars setting the idle way too low. > > I shivered through the first winter I owned a Beetle cursing the heater like everyone else, but then I actually replaced the missing and broken ductwork and tuned it up properly which got me through several subsequent brutal Northern Rocky winters just fine. If you warmed it up by driving it lightly, it would actually start making heat a lot faster than a water cooled car. The problem is that the Beetle’s heating system of ducts, exchangers, thermostatic flaps etc. was very vulnerable to rust. If any of the parts rusted out (which they did) the system wouldn’t really work much at all. The later VW Squarebacks tried to remedy this by having a gasoline heater. Problem was when these failed they set the car on fire. Literally. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/33 "2015-02-01T14:46:27Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > The problem is that the Beetle’s heating system of ducts, exchangers, thermostatic flaps etc. was very vulnerable to rust. If any of the parts rusted out (which they did) the system wouldn’t really work much at all. The later VW Squarebacks tried to remedy this by having a gasoline heater. How did heating the gas prevent rust in the heating system? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/34 "2015-02-01T15:01:55Z")
You could always fit one of these - [Diesel, gasoline or ethanol operated air and water heaters](http://www.eberspacher.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters.html). That’s what most European trucks have fitted as standard. Even the guys who work north of the Arctic Circle in Finland are happy with this. They come with a timer so the car is toasty when you get in. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/35 "2015-02-01T16:22:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How did heating the gas prevent rust in the heating system? A gasoline heater is not a device to warm gasoline. It’s essentially a furnace like the one in your house. But it burns gasoline to make the fire to heat the air. And that avoided rust simply by eliminating all the metal air ducting around the bottom of the car. Instead they placed the gasoline-powered furnace up near the dash where the heat exchanger (AKA heater core) would be on a typical front engine water-cooled car. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/36 "2015-02-01T22:06:52Z")
Best buy has kits, you can buy the remote starter and have it installed by the geek squad for $200-300. That is about the price I’ve seen advertised at auto shops, $200-300 for the kit and an install. > **[Viper Remote Start and Keyless Entry: Viper Security - Best Buy](https://www.bestbuy.com/site/brands/remote-starters-keyless-entry-systems/pcmcat211900050002.c?id=pcmcat211900050002)** > > Shop at Best Buy for Viper security and remote start, with alarm, including Viper Responder, Viper SmartStart and more. However I have no idea what additional costs come with that. Does that include hooking it up to the alarm system, keyless door locks, or trunk button? Does that include a bypass module? I’m not sure. That could add $300 to the cost, making it closer to $500-600. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/37 "2015-02-01T22:53:25Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > The problem is that the Beetle’s heating system of ducts, exchangers, thermostatic flaps etc. was very vulnerable to rust. If any of the parts rusted out (which they did) the system wouldn’t really work much at all. The later VW Squarebacks tried to remedy this by having a gasoline heater. Problem was when these failed they set the car on fire. Literally. That is true. If things really weren’t going your way, the air exchangers on the exhaust manifold would rust from the inside out and start blowing exhaust into the cabin! I do also somewhat suspect that some of the structural rust damage most bugs have these days is partly due to the heater system. The heater channels that connected the air exchanger to the floorpans were the closest thing the Beetle had to a rigid frame. When most any other part rusted out you could replace it, but rusted heater channels would send the car to the scrapyard. Having hot air flowing through them all winter might have accelerated that issue. Also I don’t _think_ any VW’s came from the factory with a gas heater, but I could see how that would be a more common dealer-installed option on the Squareback with it being the upscale VW and all. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/38 "2015-02-02T00:18:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Best buy has kits, you can buy the remote starter and have it installed by the geek squad for $200-300. That is about the price I’ve seen advertised at auto shops, $200-300 for the kit and an install. > > [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/viper/remote-starters-keyless-entry-systems/pcmcat211900050002.c?id=pcmcat211900050002](http://www.bestbuy.com/site/viper/remote-starters-keyless-entry-systems/pcmcat211900050002.c?id=pcmcat211900050002) > > However I have no idea what additional costs come with that. Does that include hooking it up to the alarm system, keyless door locks, or trunk button? Does that include a bypass module? > > I’m not sure. That could add $300 to the cost, making it closer to $500-600. I’ve had Best Buy install two remote starters in two cars aftermarket. One is still working perfectly after 10 years. The other is in a 2012, no problems. I don’t remember what the first one cost (including installation), but the second was $350. Depending on the system you buy and the car you have, you can still use your car key to open the door without worrying about the starter. The only thing about the starter installation, is that sometimes there’s an additional integration kit. Best Buy has these in stock. The two systems I purchased have ‘no steal’ systems. You have to have the key in the starter and turned before you put your foot on the brake or gas. ---
**Author:** ![sara20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@sara20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sara20)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/39 "2015-02-09T13:10:33Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > You could always fit one of these - [Professional thermal management for every vehicle](http://www.eberspacher.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters.html). > > That’s what most European trucks have fitted as standard. Even the guys who work north of the Arctic Circle in Finland are happy with this. > > They come with a timer so the car is toasty when you get in. How exactly do those things work? And how much does it cost to buy and install? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392/40 "2015-02-09T13:14:43Z")
They work by burning fuel (petrol or diesel) and blowing warm air like a furnace. The exhaust gasses are dispersed outside. How much? - no idea, but not cheap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/remote-car-starter-that-does-not-need-installation/711392.md?page=3)