# Renaming something if the minority doesn't mind but the majority does
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 14, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317 "2020-07-14T16:14:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/1 "2020-07-14T16:14:32Z")
The recent Washington Redskins renaming controversy had me thinking about something:
I don’t know what the Native American community at large thinks of the Redskins moniker, but clearly many non-Native people were offended by it.
Suppose, hypothetically, that a sports team had an offensive-sounding name, but **the minority in question** (not necessarily Native Americans - could be any other ethnic/racial group, or category of people) - **actually did not mind the name, and in fact liked it** - but most white people thought the name was awful. In such a situation, whose opinion should hold greater sway?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/2 "2020-07-14T16:28:34Z")
Sports teams should not have offensive names. Your unlikely circumstances don’t change that.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/3 "2020-07-14T16:46:55Z")
What if a sports team had a name that wasn’t offensive, but mispronouncing it a certain way would summon eldritch abominations into the world, and a minority of people would tend to make that mistake? Should the team name be changed to avoid disaster even if the majority loves the name?
In other words – your scenario doesn’t sound like something that would ever happen in the real world. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Eta: sorry, I said “when”, but meant “if we ever come to it”.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/4 "2020-07-14T16:51:49Z")
What if [a sports team had a name with religious ties](https://www.gocomics.com/thecity/2020/07/08) rather than ethnic/racial?
Derf really missed an opportunity there: should’ve been the Washington Hail Marys!
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/5 "2020-07-14T16:53:33Z")
That would be very insensitive to all of the refugees from the War on Christmas
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/6 "2020-07-14T17:16:39Z")
Just popping in to say that I totally love that comic. It’s the second time I’ve seen it posted here, and I neglected to comment the first time.
It really nails it, in a way that I hope even the densest can understand.
To the OP, do you have any examples at all from the real world? If not, then it seems like this doesn’t seem like a debate. Maybe ask a mod to move it to IMHO?
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### Author:  [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/7 "2020-07-14T17:18:12Z")
Isn’t that the entire premise here? Offensive to Who?
In this particular instance , the name is 90 years old… And I think the best possible outcome came from the best possible method.
He was pressured financially into changing it, so he did.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/8 "2020-07-14T17:46:20Z")
It’s an interesting question. My take is that the group the mascot is named after should have the primary role in making that determination. With the Redskins, the name is clearly offensive. On the other hand, what about the Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians, and Chicago Blackhawks? How are those names different than the Minnesota Vikings or the Norte Dame Fighting Irish?
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/9 "2020-07-14T17:51:30Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> It’s an interesting question. My take is that the group the mascot is named after should have the primary role in making that determination.
Thanks, this is more what I was getting at.
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### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/10 "2020-07-14T17:55:58Z")
I’m a huge Cleveland Indians fan and have been a fan all my life, as are my dad and his dad before him.
That being said, I’m all for a name change. I was VERY much for getting rid of Wahoo, and had been ditching my Wahoo gear for years anyway.
Now, I could just be a white person who is over sensitive. I recognize that. What I want - and what I THINK the Indians people are doing - is for them to speak to leaders of the groups that the name might offend, and have those groups let us know what they want. Not just one representative but several different representatives making the decision.
If they say “no, we like it” then fine they should keep it. And they should make a group statement letting us know. If they don’t like it, then we should change it and we should also have a statement as to why.
I would hope that whoever is doing the Redskins name change is doing this work, same with the Indians. Otherwise it is just white people telling minorities what they should think and feel.
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### Author:  [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/11 "2020-07-14T18:02:01Z")
Was it “Seinfeld” where one character was asking what the non-racist term for Puerto Rican is?
Puerto Rican guy: “The non-racist term for Puerto Rican is Puerto Rican.”
White guy: (cringe) “No, that doesn’t sound right.”
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/12 "2020-07-14T18:20:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Your unlikely circumstances don’t change that.
No so unlikely. Florida State has had a relationship with the Seminole Tribe for years. [Florida State website](https://unicomm.fsu.edu/messages/relationship-seminole-tribe-florida/)
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/13 "2020-07-14T18:26:27Z")
I’ve had that conversation –
Friend: What’s the polite term for a Jewish person?
Me: I call myself a Jew.
Friend: Really? You don’t find that offensive?
🙄
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### Author:  [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/14 "2020-07-14T18:36:44Z")
With names that are actual individuals (in this case tribes) they should do like Florida State Seminoles, and get the Seminole tribe on board, with recompense.
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### Author:  [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/15 "2020-07-14T18:42:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> To the OP, do you have any examples at all from the real world? If not, then it seems like this doesn’t seem like a debate. Maybe ask a mod to move it to IMHO?
This has been [polled](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html).
There are still a couple interesting questions in there.
- Given that the meaning of ‘Native American’ is relatively non-straightforward, with all the intermarriage and who gets recognized, etc, there may be no consensus way to poll to the Native American community. So is the poll result even valid?
- Even if it is valid, what percentage of the group should find the name offensive before changing it becomes ‘correct’? I personally reject both that 50%+1 should be needed (really - you’re okay with a name that offends 49% of the population it refers to) as well as the other extreme: if anyone is offended… Personally, I’d change the name even if you accept the poll results at face value.
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### Author:  [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/16 "2020-07-14T18:47:34Z")
Boricua is also a perfectly non=racist name for Puerto Ricans.
> **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/)**
>
> The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/17 "2020-07-14T18:49:50Z")
Well, I looked through a [list of NCAA college nicknames.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_team_nicknames_in_the_United_States) Skipping the many references to Indians, Braves, etc., I came up with the following nicknames that SOMEONE might be offended by:
Nanooks
Crusaders
Saxons
Scots
Trojans
Sun Devils
Saints
Vikings
Spartans
Swedes
Deacons
And that was only through the Bs.
Doesn’t seem to require a stretch to imagine some groups might find some of those somewhat offensive. 😃
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/19 "2020-07-14T19:02:12Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> Crusaders
I wouldn’t say I’m offended but I’ve always found the name Crusaders to be pretty eye roll worthy, especially in the context of something like “Campus Crusade”. The Crusades are one of the low points of Christian history, considering how mostly they involved slaughtering fellow Christians, pillaging Jewish towns in Eastern Europe, and bringing down the greatest Christian empire of its day to the point where they fell to the Turks. It’s pretty silly - and of course, those who think “Crusade” is a fine name for a proselytizing group on campus wouldn’t be nearly as happy with"Campus Jihad" now, would they? 😛
Actually, maybe that’s a good analogy for the OP. What if a group of proselytizing Muslim students wanted to create Campus Jihad (assuming other Muslims didn’t mind, which isn’t necessarily a fair assumption)? Should that be allowed, OP?
And hey – its better than Campus Inquisition.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/20 "2020-07-14T19:02:30Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> Was it “Seinfeld” where one character was asking what the non-racist term for Puerto Rican is?
There was this joke from the first episode of The office:
> Michael Scott: Um, let me ask you, is there a term besides Mexican that you prefer? Something less offensive?
> Oscar Martinez: Mexican isn’t offensive.
> Michael Scott: Well, it has certain connotations.
> Oscar Martinez: Like what?
> Michael Scott: Like… I don’t… I don’t know…
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renaming-something-if-the-minority-doesnt-mind-but-the-majority-does/915317/21 "2020-07-14T19:03:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> To me, it is the will of the fans. No one else really matters.
Fans of what? That specific team? That’s some circular logic. I wouldn’t be fan of a team with an offensive name, therefore my opinion wouldn’t matter.
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