# Rendition **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803 "2006-09-07T17:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/41 "2006-09-09T05:47:59Z")
Okay… it’s true that the president lied about a blowjob. You may say that that’s just a personal matter that had no bearing whatsoever on our national policy and would have been best left between him and his family, but don’t forget… he still lied so he is a bad bad bad bad man. oh… what?? Oh… I’m sorry… you’ll have to forgive me, I’m on vacation. Right then. That was the other lying president. THIS president only lied about torturing people and authorizing war crimes during a war that never should have been started and– –THAT’S OK!!! Because it wasn’t under oath! You fucking Democrats! Why do you hate Freedom Fries so much? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/42 "2006-09-09T05:52:06Z")
That 33% I referred to? They wouldn’t be fazed if he draped a virgin over the podium and cut out her heart as sacrifice to his Dark Lord. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/43 "2006-09-09T05:57:23Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I’m no Bush fan, but this is a _teeeny_ bit of an exaggeration. Millions died under Chairman Mao, Pol Pot and Stalin. Numbers-wise, Bush still has a long way to go before he’s in those leagues. [/QUOTE] _(the above quote was in response to an accusation that Bush has caused more mayhem than every tyrant since Hitler)_ **Lissa** , you’re correct that the poster got carried away with exaggeration, but we hold American presidents–even Republicans-- to a bit higher standard than we do Cambodian dictators. But maybe it’s time to move the goalposts a little. I think I’ve heard this on this board before, but it’s bumper-sticker wisdom that bears repeating: **Bush: At Least He’s Not Hitler!** ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/44 "2006-09-09T07:10:30Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] I really, really, really hope the Dems take Congress this year. So Bush can be impeached. This kind of shit is wrong. Deeply and horribly wrong. And if we don’t make an example of this kind of thing, nail the hide to the wall, it will just get worse. Damn it. [/QUOTE] Hey! > [@Frank Zappa](#): > > America is wonderful! Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. > > It really makes it. OK seriously now. I doubt we’ll see Bush impeached, unfortunately, but the story on rendition couldn’t have come at a better time for his opponents politically. Barring a wholesale attack on the country, which the Repubs might use to rally the voters, I don’t think they have much of a chance of retaining their legislative majorities come November. And that will certainly handicap Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/45 "2006-09-09T07:14:30Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] I really, really, really hope the Dems take Congress this year. So Bush can be impeached. This kind of shit is wrong. Deeply and horribly wrong. And if we don’t make an example of this kind of thing, nail the hide to the wall, it will just get worse. Damn it. [/QUOTE] The NY Times (last time I checked) had 50 seats “safe” and leaning Republican, 47 seats safe and leaning Democrat, and 3 seats “toss-up”. Therefore, the best case scenario for the Dems is a tie, and even that’s unlikely. An attempt at impeachment would fail and become an embarassment (why the Pubs never got taken to task on the Clinton impeachment will always mystify me, but the Dems would not have such luck in the current political climate), which, I suspect, is the sole reason they haven’t done it already. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/46 "2006-09-09T19:18:28Z")
Impeaching is not important unless you believe it would help regain respect in the world. We lost our moral imperative. We were never supposed to attack a country that didnt attack us first.We cooked the intelligence and lied in f ont of the world.We claimedd to be the shiny beacon on the hill. Thats all gone and may never be recovered. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/47 "2006-09-09T19:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] That 33% I referred to? They wouldn’t be fazed if he draped a virgin over the podium and cut out her heart as sacrifice to his Dark Lord. [/QUOTE] Why would you care, you Godless liberal! Obviously, Mr. Bush draws a dark and forboding power from this sacrifice that will help win the war on terror. It’s so common for a nanny state communist like yourself to heap scorn on such a moral man. Why, every great patriot should strive to be that virgin on the wooden podium! Just like Jesus! BTW, his Dark Lord…we’re talking about Mr. Cheney, right? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/48 "2006-09-09T19:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] We claimedd to be the shiny beacon on the hill. Thats all gone and may never be recovered. [/QUOTE] I don’t know that the rest of the world ever rally bought into that “beacon on a hill” thing. It was more of an American pat-yourself-on-the-back meme.\* Sure, we always had people dreaming of coming to America, but we’re not the only country which has freedom though we sometimes seem to think we are. Secondly, though we may always see ourselves as “the good guys” we’ve been sticking our nose into other countries’ business since we had the ability to project power and frankly, we haven’t always done it for the right reasons. \*When I was in school, I was taught a \*very \*edited version of American history which was really half propaganda. References to being the only country on the earth with real freedom and the only place where hard work will always equal success were scattered through the text. I was given the impression from reading it that we were the only country who did things right. Thankfully, I’m a curious person and so I did a lot of independant reading, else I would only know this rah-rah USA version of history. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/49 "2006-09-09T20:06:40Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] \*When I was in school, I was taught a \*very \*edited version of American history which was really half propaganda. References to being the only country on the earth with real freedom and the only place where hard work will always equal success were scattered through the text. I was given the impression from reading it that we were the only country who did things right. Thankfully, I’m a curious person and so I did a lot of independant reading, else I would only know this rah-rah USA version of history. [/QUOTE] We were all taught this and, like you, only those among us with sufficient curiousity recovered. Unfortunately, most people aren’t very curious. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/50 "2006-09-10T09:24:06Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I’m no Bush fan, but this is a _teeeny_ bit of an exaggeration. Millions died under Chairman Mao, Pol Pot and Stalin. Numbers-wise, Bush still has a long way to go before he’s in those leagues. [/QUOTE] Yes, but as soon as they were gone, the healing could start. It will take a few generations before the US has even the smallest chance of being able to claim the high ground. It will take generations of new terrorists, people who would otherwise probably have cared less about the US. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/51 "2006-09-10T09:29:25Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Impeaching is not important unless you believe it would help regain respect in the world. [/QUOTE] I think it would be the only first step the US can take, if they want to regain respect in the world. As long as this guy is in command, the rest of the world will equate US=Bush, Bush=US. Not condemning is almost the same as supporting in things like this. But, hey I know it isn’t going to happen. I am even willing to bet that next time around you will have another Republican president. You guys really need to get rid of that two-party system!! (I know there are other parties, but they really need to step up their game) If people can only choose between white and black, things will never change. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/52 "2006-09-10T09:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] BTW, his Dark Lord…we’re talking about Mr. Cheney, right? [/QUOTE] Yes, Cheney is actually Sauron. Like the books say, Sauron lost the ability to take a pleasing shape after the destruction of Numenor, and Cheney sure ain’t pleasing. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/53 "2006-09-10T13:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > You guys really need to get rid of that two-party system!! (I know there are other parties, but they really need to step up their game) > If people can only choose between white and black, things will never change. Don’t let the rhetoric fool ya. It’s more like a choice between two shades of medium bluish-grey. It ain’t exactly Trotskyites vs. Fascists here. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/54 "2006-09-10T16:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Don’t let the rhetoric fool ya. It’s more like a choice between two shades of medium bluish-grey. It ain’t exactly Trotskyites vs. Fascists here. [/QUOTE] Quite true. I’ve imagined that the parties have a sit-down when they choose their candidates to discuss this and make sure there’s\* juuuuuust \*enough of a difference between them to give us the illusion of choice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/55 "2006-09-10T17:21:35Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Don’t let the rhetoric fool ya. It’s more like a choice between two shades of medium bluish-grey. It ain’t exactly Trotskyites vs. Fascists here. [/QUOTE] I am disappointed to see a longtime Doper posting such obvious bullshit. There are real differences between the two parties, and there are real consequences to whom you elect. I mean, think about it. If we had elected Al Gore in 2000, he may not have done any better than Bush at preventing 9/11 (but then, he may have done better). And he probably would have invaded Afghanistan, as that was where the plot definitely originated. **But he would never have invaded Iraq, because unlike Dubya, he was never in the thrall of the neocon cabal.** That’s a real difference, it would have had major repercussions in our world. This business of saying there’s no real difference between the parties is truly a matter of becoming the voice of ignorance. Lissa, you should be ashamed, too. Now go to your rooms, both of you! No cookies! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/56 "2006-09-10T17:43:16Z")
That’s a fine, passionate statement, there, **E\_C** , but I think you’ve missed my point. Of course there are differences between the two major parties, else I probably wouldn’t have bothered to vote Democrat in the last two elections, and of course we would likely not be in Iraq if a Democratic president had been elected in 2000. But there’s a good chance we would not be in Iraq if any other Republican had been elected either, and in any event I was simply responding to one poster’s statement about the two major parties being a choice between black and white. There would have to be a much greater ideological gulf between the two before I could bring myself to agree with that statement. Jeez, you’ve practically gotta run stuff by a committee before you post around here… 😃 Oh, yeah, and I’m already in my room (where else would I be posting from on a Sunday?) and I almost never eat cookies anyway. I therefore sneer at your puny attempts at punishment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803/57 "2006-09-10T17:51:34Z")
And therein lies the struggle between grassroots/netroots Dems and the Washington based leadership, who seem determined to project and image of Republican Lite, still angling to struggle for the 1 or 2 percent undecideds and maybe squeek out a puny victory. Fuck that shit! This is a struggle for the soul and future of our beloved country! You can bet your sweet patooty that the Pubbies aren’t planning a campaign of sweet reason, sipping tea with pinkys akimbo! Its going to be fear! fear! and cries of “Treason!” and we’d better be ready! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rendition/371803.md?page=2)