# Renew the Assault Weapons ban. I dare ya! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127 "2004-09-12T12:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/121 "2004-09-30T12:58:05Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > …I’ve still got a single shot .22LR, the deadliest rifle ever, in the right hands. No, it’s just about the least-powerful rifle that can potentially be deadly, in the right hands. Hey, if you are enough of a toolbag to dutifully turn in your rifles when the gov’t demands it (don’t trust yourself with them?), more power to you. I sure as hell wouldn’t voluntarily turn in my firearms under just about any conceivable circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/122 "2004-09-30T13:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > **demannlash** said: > Why don’t you just try the old fashion teqnique of snotting them with a bat or a golf club or your fist before going for the option of putting a bullet hole in them? Or lock your doors? There must be a few more rational options before shooting someone comes into play. I know my abilities and know that I cannot effectively defend myself with a bat or a golf club. I also know from firsthand experience that locks are really effective for keeping honest people honest, but not very effective at all against someone determined to enter my home, or anyone else’s home. > [@](#): > > Why did you want to own your AK-47 copy then? Partly as a collector’s item, because it is actually a fairly old rifle and it has some historical value, but mostly because I enjoy target shooting with it. > [@](#): > > As I’ve stated, I’m not from the states, and share a probably very common perception that americans, in general, are a bit “gun mad”. Just trying to grasp why an accountant needs/wants an AR-15, as an example. Why the fascination with firearms? You might as well also investigate why an accountant would need/want a Samurai sword or a high-powered computer with broadband Internet. People have interests and hobbies, and you’re not required to understand mine for me to enjoy them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/123 "2004-09-30T13:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > As I’ve stated, I’m not from the states, and share a probably very common perception that americans, in general, are a bit “gun mad”. Just trying to grasp why an accountant needs/wants an AR-15, as an example. Why the fascination with firearms? You could ask the same question of stamp collectors or car collectors. What does Jay Leno _do_ with all of his cars? If you think of it, target shooting (which is what I use my AR-15 for – not competitive, but just “plinking”) breaks down to this: You try to put a projectile in a certain place. In golf, you try to put a projectile in a certain place. Same thing, really. (So why don’t I like golf?) Why an AR-15? For me, I appreciate the history behind the firearms. Also, I like not having to reload after every five rounds. (Conversely, I enjoy the “ritual” of loading a muzzleloading Colt 1851 revolver.) If you ask about AR-15s, then you’ll have to ask about handguns eventually. Why do I have a Smith & Wesson Model 10 with a two-inch barrel? Because I collect flight gear, and this gun was issued to flight crews. It’s just as much a part of the collection as the LPU, G-suit, parachute harness, survival kit (with issue contents), helmet, oxygen mask, etc. The collection wouldn’t be complete without it. There seems to be a perception that guns can only be used for A) hunting, B) self-defense, or C) going on killing rampages. _None_ of my guns are for defense. I don’t hunt. I’m not going to go on a killing spree. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/124 "2004-09-30T13:11:42Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > the court interprets the Second to mean that the people have the right to own firearms that have military value, as the framers’ intent was that the populace have the opportunity to be armed as well as any individual soldier. I can see how that might have been necessary a couple of hundred years ago but that it is still used now is insane. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/125 "2004-09-30T13:16:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey, if you are enough of a toolbag to dutifully turn in your rifles when the gov’t demands it (don’t trust yourself with them?), more power to you. I sure as hell wouldn’t voluntarily turn in my firearms under just about any conceivable circumstances. In actual fact, I could have kept the rifles that where in my possesion and even bought more after the laws had changed because I still did contract work to an organisation that controlled feral animals, I handed them over because I didn’t need them/want them and thought the law was a good idea. > [@](#): > > **Brutus** : > don’t trust yourself with them? You dickhead :rolleyes: Why are there so many firearms in th US? Because you can have them due to the constitution? Doesn’t anyone think that this may be the reason why there are so many gun related crimes in the US? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/126 "2004-09-30T13:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > **marky33** said: > I can see how that might have been necessary a couple of hundred years ago but that it is still used now is insane. The only government that finds it insane for the citizens to be the ulitmate repository of force is the one that can’t be trusted. Are you attempting to say that there’s absolutely no threat today that the government could ignore the fact that it is in service to the people using power loaned by us and become tyrannical? If so, why do you think this isn’t a possibilty? What keeps the government from overstepping its bounds? > [@](#): > > **demannlash** said: > Why are there so many firearms in th US? Because you can have them due to the constitution? Because apparently there are more than eighty million of us who really like firearms, and they’re quite legal for us to own. You might as well ask why there are so many computers in the US? Is it purely because the Constitution protects our right to express ourselves? > [@](#): > > Doesn’t anyone think that this may be the reason why there are so many gun related crimes in the US? Apparently Sarah Brady does. I think it’s because there are too many _criminals_ on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/127 "2004-09-30T13:30:27Z")
**Johnny L.A.** You use your rifle for plinking, I bet you could have more fun and become a much improved shooter with a target rifle at decent range. A semi auto isn’t going to be fantastically accurate rifle, it’s made to put out as many rounds as possible while still conforming to restrictions on classes of weapons. Handguns…licensed, and locked up. Fine. I’ve seen you at that Aussie message board before to, G’day. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/128 "2004-09-30T13:34:45Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > The only government that finds it insane for the citizens to be the ulitmate repository of force is the one that can’t be trusted. Or perhaps one that, living in the real world, realises that not all of its citizens can be trusted with extremely dangerous tools. > [@catsix](#): > > Are you attempting to say that there’s absolutely no threat today that the government could ignore the fact that it is in service to the people using power loaned by us and become tyrannical? If so, why do you think this isn’t a possibilty? What keeps the government from overstepping its bounds? I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means. Are you suggesting that the US Govt does not overstep its bounds because, and only because, the citizenry is armed? What then regulates the governments of Europe, Japan and other democracies that are as open and fair as the US? Or are US leaders less trustworthy for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/129 "2004-09-30T13:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Doesn’t anyone think that this may be the reason why there are so many gun related crimes in the US? > > catsix: > Apparently Sarah Brady does. I think it’s because there are too many criminals on the streets. Nah. It’s because getting access to firearms is to easy. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/130 "2004-09-30T13:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > You use your rifle for plinking, I bet you could have more fun and become a much improved shooter with a target rifle at decent range. A semi auto isn’t going to be fantastically accurate rifle, it’s made to put out as many rounds as possible while still conforming to restrictions on classes of weapons. You’re missing the point. Of _course_ a purpose-made target rifle would be better for target shooting; but "plinking’ is a different activity. The fun of shooting an AR-15 is that you’re shooting an AR-15. > [@](#): > > Handguns…licensed, and locked up. Fine. My handguns are no more of a threat now than if they were “licensed and locked up”. As I said, they’re basically for collecting. Some places outside of the U.S. require that firearms (I don’t like the word “weapons” when referring to most guns, because “weapons” implies an intent) be locked up at a club. In that situation my USN flight gear collection would not be complete because a piece of it would not be with the rest. Another piece of equipment I have is a radio. It’s illegal to use it. Using it could result in a massive search-and-rescue operation costing thousands of dollars and potentially endangering people. Should it be taken away? No. It’s just part of the kit, and it’s not used. > [@](#): > > Nah. It’s because getting access to firearms is to easy. Simple. Define “easy”. In California, where I used to live, you had to have a background check, you had to provide a utility bill to prove residency (because a state-issued driver’s license isn’t good enough. BTW, this was something I noticed just before I left the state.), and you had to wait ten days before picking up your gun. Additionally, first-time handgun buyers have to undergo a training course. Private transfers in California must go through a dealer with the b.g. check, ten-day wait, etc. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen you at that Aussie message board before to, G’day. G’day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/131 "2004-09-30T13:57:00Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > Wouldn’t a complete ban on all firearms that are semi automatic or self loading be a god send to the community? Except for law enforcement and the armed forces, of course. THe last sentence of your post is the very reason that our citizens must continue to insist on impressing our rights to bear arms. If the government and the police have weapons and we don’t we’re sunk. Our country was founded on tyranny and overthrowing an oppressive government. Should a situation occur in the future, wherein the people feel oppressed enough to overhtrow our government, how on earth could we do it with single-shot weapons when the government has automatic(not semi-) weapons? Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/132 "2004-09-30T13:59:55Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > I come from a country where semi auto weapons are illegal. High powered calibres (.308, 7.62 mm, .303, and quite a few more) are restricted to people that actually have a real need for them (like shooting feral buffalo). Pump action shotguns are illegal for the general public and pistol owners must be registered to a club. All firearms must be stored in an approved gun cabinet (bolted to floor and wall). A genuine demonstrated need to own a firearm must be provided when you apply for a firearms license and if you come from the city and haven’t got somewhere to shoot, you’ve got no chance of owning a firearm. > > Pretty damn good laws to control who owns firearms and very effective at reducing gun crimes and gun theft. I used to be a proffesional shooter, I was involved with feral animal culls from the air and ground and owned a few semi auto rifles. I changed lines of employment but still owned the rifles, when the laws here changed regarding gun ownership I happily handed over my stash because I had no need to own a semi automatic .308 rifle. Unless your killing buffalo, donkeys, goats or elephants for a living, why do you need such weapons?? To even compare or contrast this, I’d like to know what country. It would make a whole helluva difference in situation. Australia? Britain? Some African state? Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/133 "2004-09-30T14:05:22Z")
> [@marky33](#): > > Or perhaps one that, living in the real world, realises that not all of its citizens can be trusted with extremely dangerous tools. Ya, and most people shouldn’t me trusted with the keys to their fucking cars, but you don’t see people decrying the most powerful projectile on our streets as a danger and demanding their removal from the streets, do you? > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means. Are you suggesting that the US Govt does not overstep its bounds because, and only because, the citizenry is armed? > What then regulates the governments of Europe, Japan and other democracies that are as open and fair as the US? Or are US leaders less trustworthy for some reason? This is a socilogical/political question that has been asked a billion times now. I don’t think there has ever been a good answer, but don’t you think the people of Germany would have been better off if they had been allowed to keep their guns in the 1930’s? Sam ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/134 "2004-09-30T14:09:15Z")
**Johnny L.A.** Licensed and locked up…kept in a gunsafe (in your own house, how it works here) so that it is not as easy to steal and/or fall into less responsible hands. What are the laws regarding storage of weapons (c’mon, they’re made to kill or modelled on something that was) in the states. Are the Californian gun laws the most strict? Shouldn’t having somewhere to store the bloody things be involved in the purchasing process? Storing a firearm, safely (bolt out, mag and ammo seperate), in a safe place is the first rule of gun safety, If you can’t fulfill that first requirement, you don’t deserve to own a firearm. Here, you have to have a secure gun cabinet bolted to a concrete base (house pad usually) and a wall, 2 locks on the cabinet front door and seperate compartment for bolts and magazines/ammo. Do you have to show ID, firearm registration or license when buying ammunition? ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/135 "2004-09-30T14:10:15Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Should a situation occur in the future, wherein the people feel oppressed enough to overhtrow our government, how on earth could we do it with single-shot weapons when the government has automatic(not semi-) weapons? That’s pretty far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/136 "2004-09-30T14:25:35Z")
**GaWd** The Country from where I hail should not have any influnce on the topic, it’s the laws regarding gun control that are in question. If you must know, it’s a country established as a penal settlement for the scum of british society, murders, theives, whores, bank robbers etc. A country first settled by tyrants. Overthrowing governments :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/137 "2004-09-30T14:40:26Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > don’t you think the people of Germany would have been better off if they had been allowed to keep their guns in the 1930’s? Hitler had popular support for most of the 1930s so I don’t think it would have made any difference except maybe to the Jews, who may have been wiped out faster. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/138 "2004-09-30T16:18:11Z")
> [@marky33](#): > > That’s pretty far-fetched. It was pretty far-fetched the first time it happened, too. > [@demannlash](#): > > The Country from where I hail should not have any influnce on the topic But of course it does. You live in a country with a population of just less than Texas(20.2million vs. 22 million), that has an area of almost the size of the whole U.S. You have a population density of 6.4 people/mi, whereas we have a population of 76 people/mi. You live in a country that is mainly bush with a few densely populated areas, and we have a pretty urbanized way of life. If you look at international violent death statistics, our two countries aren’t that far off. Per capita stats place the US at 18.57 and Aus at 14.65(1993/4 stats, couldn’t find newer stats). That means that there was a mean difference of 3.92 deaths per 100,000. We have almost twice the amount of homes owning a firearm in the US, yet by these stats, less than 4 additional violent deaths. Your country recently tried to ban broadswords and other swords, too. If you ban one weapon, another will take it’s place. Cite cite cite: [GunCite-Gun Control-International Homicide and Suicide Rates](http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html) Cheers, mate! Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/139 "2004-09-30T16:20:58Z")
> [@marky33](#): > > Hitler had popular support for most of the 1930s so I don’t think it would have made any difference except maybe to the Jews, who may have been wiped out faster. I disagree. And after some thought into your whole “Europe doesn’t support gun ownership and it’s leaders don’t take advantage”, line of reasoning-only the last 50 years or so have had european leaders who didn’t take advantage of, oppress, or outright abuse their populations. Even then, there are several countries whose leaders are STILL perpetrating misdeeds on their populations and subjects. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/140 "2004-09-30T20:24:25Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > The Country from where I hail should not have any influnce on the topic, it’s the laws regarding gun control that are in question. If you must know, it’s a country established as a penal settlement for the scum of british society, murders, theives, whores, bank robbers etc. A country first settled by tyrants. You could have just said Austrailia, you know. :rolleyes: At first, I thought this guy may have been related to **Aldebaran**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127.md?page=8)