# Renew the Assault Weapons ban. I dare ya! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127 "2004-09-12T12:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/141 "2004-09-30T21:01:46Z")
> [@](#): > > **marky33** said: > Or perhaps one that, living in the real world, realises that not all of its citizens can be trusted with extremely dangerous tools. I want absolutely no part of a government that doesn’t trust the citizens to own firearms. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means. Are you suggesting that the US Govt does not overstep its bounds because, and only because, the citizenry is armed? No. I’m saying that there is no reason to believe that a government that is benevolent today will stay that way tomorrow. Why do you believe that it will? > [@](#): > > **demannlash** said: > Shouldn’t having somewhere to store the bloody things be involved in the purchasing process? Storing a firearm, safely (bolt out, mag and ammo seperate), in a safe place is the first rule of gun safety, Bullshit. The first rule of firearms safety is ‘All firearms are loaded.’ The second rule of firearms safety is ‘Never point the muzzle at anything you do not intend to destroy.’ Locked up disassembled would’ve done me no damn good when my life was in danger. > [@](#): > > Do you have to show ID, firearm registration or license when buying ammunition? You have to show ID, provide your Social Security Number, fill out a federal affidavit form from the BATF and undergo an instant background check. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/142 "2004-10-01T06:46:07Z")
**GaWd** … Focus on this…“crimes or deaths involving firearms”…as THIS is my point, fewer firearms = fewer firearm related offences. pssst! Guess what? We live an urbanised way of life also but don’t tell anyone 😉 Here are some groovy stats… [US crime stats](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm) > [@](#): > > In 2002, about 67% of all murders, 42% of all robberies, and 19% of all aggravated assaults that were reported to the police were committed with a firearm. [Aus crime stats](http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs%40.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/6dc2ae04ba5004c0ca256b35001967d4!OpenDocument) > [@](#): > > 19.5% of murders etc. (2000 figures) And from your own source: US: 3.72 homicides by firearm/100,000 Aus: 0.44 homicides by firearm/100,000 thats 8.455 times more murders with firearms per 100,000/yr. So, Sunshine, you can see that our two countries are VERY far off. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/143 "2004-10-01T07:02:05Z")
**catsix** OK, I agree with that, first rule is ‘every gun is loaded’, second ‘don’t point it at something you don’t intend to shoot’. Excellent. The rule that should make these ‘rules’ irrelevant is ‘if you can’t store it safely you don’t get to own one’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/144 "2004-10-01T12:31:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Are the Californian gun laws the most strict? California gun laws are pretty strict, but I think that New York, New Jersey, Massachussetts and Washington D.C. have stricter laws. I don’t think you have to show your ID to buy ammunition in California. You used to have to show your ID and record the purchase of handgun ammunition, or any ammunition that could be used in a handgun, in a book at the point of purchase. I bought a Walther PPK/S a few months before I left California. Apparently new handguns must be fired by the factory before purchase, and the spent case and bullet sent to a federal organisation that is keeping them in some sort of a database in case the gun is ever used in a crime. [sub](And again, the PPK/S is not for defense. It’s because I’m a big James Bond fan and I wanted one for my collection – although Bond used a PPK, which was banned from importation in 1968 and the PPK/S I bought is stainless steel instead of blue.)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/145 "2004-10-01T12:41:41Z")
Not sure If I got this right, you don’t need a license to buy ammunition? So anyone can buy ammo even if it is for a weapon that has been illegally obtained? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/146 "2004-10-01T12:43:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **demannlash** said: > The rule that should make these ‘rules’ irrelevant is ‘if you can’t store it safely you don’t get to own one’. Maybe you like having a government that wipes your nose and ties your shoes for you, but I don’t. Over here, I determine what ‘safe storage’ is, as a balance between not letting other people get to it and making damn sure it’s available to me when I need it. Of course, I don’t want the government trying to force me to lock up the knife drawer because there are too many stabbings, either. > [@](#): > > **Johnny L.A.** said: > Apparently new handguns must be fired by the factory before purchase, and the spent case and bullet sent to a federal organisation that is keeping them in some sort of a database in case the gun is ever used in a crime. And of course this is absolutely useless because guns don’t have fingerprints that are unchanged throughout their lifetime. Wear and tear causes the ‘fingerprint’ to change, as does replacing parts when they wear out. It’s expensive legislation that has never been used to solve a single crime. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/147 "2004-10-01T12:57:23Z")
**catsix** Rules about storage are common sense. What is your “self determined” safe storage? Drawer, glovebox, under your mattress, in a lock box. What happens when someone breaks into your house and steals one of your weapons and then shoots a kid because you wanted to have it handy in case someone tries to steal your TV? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/148 "2004-10-01T13:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > What happens when someone breaks into your house and steals one of your weapons and then shoots a kid because you wanted to have it handy in case someone tries to steal your TV? What happens when someone breaks into a woman’s house and rapes her and kills her because her gun is locked up in a safe and she can’t defend herself? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/149 "2004-10-01T13:07:21Z")
Why should I be held responsible for the actions of a _criminal_ who has already committed a felony by entering my house? It’s not my duty to make tools inaccessible to me because John Q. Crackhead can’t control himself. John Q. Crackhead is a criminal. John Q. Crackhead does not belong inside my house. I have the right to be secure in my home, **demannlash** , and expect that John Q. Crackhead stay the hell out of it. It is not my duty to nail everything to the floor to protect the ‘children’ from John Q. Crackhead. ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/150 "2004-10-01T13:09:53Z")
She could scream her lungs out Scream her lungs out and hit him with something scream her lungs out and pepper spray the prick bash him with a draw scratch his eyes out Guns first, always the first option, see a trend arising? What about: rapist breaks into girls apartment rapes and shoots her with her own weapon that wasn’t secured and then goes and shoots a service station attendant with the pistol and then sells it to a 15 year old that takes it to school and shoots a few classmates? ---
**Author:** ![demannlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@demannlash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demannlash)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/151 "2004-10-01T13:13:18Z")
**catsix** Actually, it is your fucking duty to give a shit about the people around you, especially kids. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/152 "2004-10-01T13:45:14Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > And from your own source: > US: 3.72 homicides by firearm/100,000 > > Aus: 0.44 homicides by firearm/100,000 > > thats 8.455 times more murders with firearms per 100,000/yr. > > So, Sunshine, you can see that our two countries are VERY far off. 🆒 I don’t think they’re as far off as you seem to think. In a country with a very slight population, with much less than half as many homes owning guns, I think it is a poor set of statistics to use. That is why I(and others apparently), think “total violent deaths” is a better stat. Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/153 "2004-10-01T13:53:33Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > Guns first, always the first option, see a trend arising? No. > [@](#): > > What about: rapist breaks into girls apartment rapes and shoots her with her own weapon that wasn’t secured and then goes and shoots a service station attendant with the pistol and then sells it to a 15 year old that takes it to school and shoots a few classmates? What about it? What about if a rapist breaks in to her house, rapes her, goes to her knife drawer and stabs her to death because it wasn’t secured and then goes to a service station and robs them at knifepoint, and then gives the knife to his 15yr old cousin to take care of a bully? Should she have had the cutlery locked up? What if it were a bat? A stungun?Should we outlaw these items like your government is presumably going to try to do in the near future? I mean, you have to protect the public… Remove one weapon from a population. It will either become a black market item, or in a successful ban, a new weapon will take its place. It’s not cultural, it’s not an issue of society, it’s criminals being criminals. They will always find a way to be criminals-by gun, by electronic(stungun), by blunt force object, by sharp object. You can’t legislate that away. Sam ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/154 "2004-10-01T14:00:26Z")
> [@](#): > > **demannlash** said: > Actually, it is your fucking duty to give a shit about the people around you, especially kids. Which is why _I don’t shoot people_. I keep my firearms inside my house, where, get this, John Q. Crackhead _shouldn’t be_. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/155 "2004-10-01T15:52:33Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > And from your own source: > US: 3.72 homicides by firearm/100,000 > > Aus: 0.44 homicides by firearm/100,000 > > thats 8.455 times more murders with firearms per 100,000/yr. > > So, Sunshine, you can see that our two countries are VERY far off. 🆒 I think you just proved GaWd’s point. If the total violent crime rate is close to being the same ( A difference of 4 victims per 100K folks, IIRC), and in Oz guns are used in a much smaller percentage of violent crimes (presumably because of the draconian gun control laws in place), then the problem isn’t the _guns_, it’s the _people commiting the crimes_. They are finding other ways as guns become scarse or unavailable. Isn’t that pretty bleeding obvious? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/156 "2004-10-01T15:59:20Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I think you just proved GaWd’s point. If the total violent crime rate is close to being the same ( A difference of 4 victims per 100K folks, IIRC), and in Oz guns are used in a much smaller percentage of violent crimes (presumably because of the draconian gun control laws in place), then the problem isn’t the _guns_, it’s the _people commiting the crimes_. They are finding other ways as guns become scarse or unavailable. Isn’t that pretty bleeding obvious? Yes Dave, the difference was 3.92 violent deaths/100,000. Guns are big, bad, and scary, therefore they should be outlawed. But now that Australia is banning other weapons-like swords-what will be the new weapon of choice? Will the banning of swords contribute to a drop in violent deaths? Or will rocks become the weapon of choice and be banned? Good to see you on the same side of the fence as me occasionally 😃 Sam ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/157 "2004-10-01T20:09:07Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > **catsix** > > Actually, it is your fucking duty to give a shit about the people around you, especially kids. Feh, not really. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/158 "2004-10-01T20:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=demannlash] She could scream her lungs out Yes, yes, not relying on yourself and begging for help from others is a pretty typical way of handling things for people like you. > [@](#): > > What about: rapist breaks into girls apartment rapes and shoots her with her own weapon that wasn’t secured and then goes and shoots a service station attendant with the pistol and then sells it to a 15 year old that takes it to school and shoots a few classmates? Wait, wait, I have a better one! What if a crackhead criminal who happened to be a physics prodigy breaks into my house, steals my aluminum baseball bat, melts it down and uses that to construct the jacket of the nuclear weapon he’s been working on in his basement? He could take that nuclear bomb and detonate it in a daycare and lots of kids would die just because people wrecklessly wanted to own baseball bats! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/159 "2004-10-01T20:50:29Z")
> [@demannlash](#): > > **catsix** > > Actually, it is your fucking duty to give a shit about the people around you, especially kids. Yeah, yeah. If someone can construct a ridiculous scenario for something you owned to be used to hurt children, you shouldn’t be allowed to own that weapon. Now, please, will somebody please think of the children and vote for the government to confiscate every item we own and lock us up in padded rooms? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127/160 "2004-10-01T20:51:33Z")
Woops, I meant to say “own that object”… then the rest of my post makes more sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renew-the-assault-weapons-ban-i-dare-ya/264127.md?page=9)