# Renewable power cheaper to build and operate than coal power **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976 "2018-11-23T16:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/21 "2018-11-25T20:54:26Z")
With the move to LED lighting, LED lit flat screen TV sets and higher efficiency air conditioning systems most people’s homes are using less power than a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/22 "2018-11-25T22:08:27Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > However, there are other costs of a solar system and those are not going down. The panels themselves may only be $0.50, but there is still another $2-3 of costs for other hardware, installation, taxes, etc. > > [Discover global power and renewables insights | Wood Mackenzie](https://www.greentechmedia.com/content/images/articles/resi_cost_2015.png) > > So who knows how much solar will continue to decline, because most of the decline up until now was due to the panels themselves becoming cheaper. Back when it costs $8 per installed watt ($5 for the panel, $3 for everything else) cheaper panels was a great idea. Now that it costs $3.50 an installed watt ($0.50 for the panel, $3 for everything else) cheaper panels won’t make a difference. That link is from 2015. I assume that it refers to the cost for existing houses. But in California new construction must have solar cells, and I’d suspect adding them as the house is getting roofed will reduce the installation cost. It will take a while to have a big impact, but it will help. ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/23 "2018-11-26T17:51:50Z")
> **[Texas Got 18 Percent of Its Energy from Wind and Solar Last Year](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/texas-got-18-percent-of-its-energy-from-wind-and-solar-last-year/)** > > For years critics have claimed grid costs and stability will spiral out of control before we hit 20 percent renewable energy. Texas is proving them wrong Well, in the liberal utopia of Texas, electric rates have actually decreased as a result of their wind power investment. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/24 "2018-11-26T21:38:35Z")
> [@Doubticus](#): > > [Texas Got 18 Percent of Its Energy from Wind and Solar Last Year | Scientific American](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/texas-got-18-percent-of-its-energy-from-wind-and-solar-last-year/) > > Well, in the liberal utopia of Texas, electric rates have actually decreased as a result of their wind power investment. Interesting. I drove through the Texas panhandle on I40, and there were a ton of windmills there. Almost thought I was back in California. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/25 "2018-12-06T01:28:41Z")
Not entirely based on renewables but a major power company, [Xcel Energy](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/12/5/18126920/xcel-energy-100-percent-clean-carbon-free), has committed to 100% carbon-free power by 2050 - 80% by 2030. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/26 "2018-12-06T02:29:36Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That link is from 2015. I assume that it refers to the cost for existing houses. But in California new construction must have solar cells, and I’d suspect adding them as the house is getting roofed will reduce the installation cost. It will take a while to have a big impact, but it will help. I wonder what the cost of an installed watt of solar is if you install them when you are building the house. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/27 "2018-12-06T03:32:03Z")
Both UK and Germany have huge wind farm projects being installed off-shore. Wind turbine technology has matured and now the economies of scale have started to kick in. It is more expensive that on onland but the neighbours don’t complain so much if it is out to sea. Building offshore wind farms is straightforward for the offshore oil and gas companies and so is maintenance. The latest turbines are 700ft tall and can generate 10MW per turbine. The progress of the shift from coal to wind has been striking. Coal powered plants are either being closed down or converted to burning biomass (woodchips). [https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/](https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/) However, it is Gas and Nuclear power plants that provide the backbone of generating capacity at the moment. Coal is yesterdays power source in many countries that can afford to switch. But every country has different circumstances and some places like Poland, where the recent climate change conference was held, are highly dependent on Coal to keep the lights on. So too is China.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976/28 "2018-12-06T03:45:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I wonder what the cost of an installed watt of solar is if you install them when you are building the house. Me too. I couldn’t find that information. I’m sure it helps that the roofers are up there already, and that they can install the right type of roof. With the cost of houses in California these days, I suspect the incremental cost would be relatively trivial. Also, when we investigated solar, we heard that a big issue is if there are trees blocking the light for some of the roof. Trees around a new house or new development can be planted with solar in mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renewable-power-cheaper-to-build-and-operate-than-coal-power/824976.md?page=1)