# Renouncing US citizenship to get a bank account **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 30, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691 "2013-10-30T21:38:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/81 "2013-11-02T03:39:17Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > If he does get a payroll check. I don’t know his situation, but in Thailand direct deposit is mandatory at many if not most if not all companies. I don’t think I’ve ever even heard of payroll checks since I left the US. In fact, here they’ll even specify the bank you _must_ open an account with just to receive your salary. And you know what’s crazy, they still call me into the HR office every month to receive and sign for my paper pay stub. I always thought a big part of the reason for direct deposit was so that companies could go paperless and not have to deal with cutting paper checks/stubs. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/82 "2013-11-02T06:57:13Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Actually a large fraction of both the lower class and the middle class live paycheck to paycheck. So all you need to do is to cash your payroll check at the issuing bank, a local grocery store or a check-cashing place and pay your bills either in person or by a money order. You seem to think the entire whole world functions like America. Check-cashing place? In Spain they’re called Banks. There are no other “check cashing places”. And this assumes he gets paid by check which I believe has totally disappeared in Spain. I think it is pretty much impossible to conduct a normal life in Spain and probably in the rest of Europe without a bank account and credit card. Paying bills in person means wasting a whole morning when you need to be working. Here utility companies do not have offices where you can pay, you deposit directly into their bank account in the bank. The utilities hate this. Banks hate this. They all try to make it as inconvenient as possible. There are no surcharges (yet) but I once saw (and photographed) a sign at a bank which read “Utility bills only the first thursday of each month from 9 to 10:30 AM”. I have already said: buying an air ticket with cash puts you on the list of suspect persons. How are you going to keep and save money? By law, in Spain payments over 3000 euros _must_ be by bank. You cannot buy a car with cash. Period. If you try to get a phone without having a bank account they will laugh so hard… I recently got a gas contract and they required a bank account; it was not optional. I suppose you can beg for money which you can then spend on bare necessities. The notion that you can lead a normal life and hold a job without a bank account and credit card is just plain silly. Maybe in America (and I doubt it) but certainly not in what I know of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/83 "2013-11-02T11:01:49Z")
Agreed. In Dubai the only way to pay rent is via a series of post-dated cheques, usually paid a full year in advance. Writing a bad cheque will land you in jail… it is treated far more seriously than in the USA. No bank account means no cheques and no way to pay rent. DEWA (Dubai Water and Electricity Authority) can take cash maybe… I’ve not tried as everything is cheques or bank transfer. In Prague everything is done by bank transfer. Nothing like utilities can normally be paid in cash, though you can pay in cash at the bank of the account holder (which means different banks for different utility companies). Like in Spain, they make it very inconvenient to do it this way. There are no cheques in the Czech Republic. 🙂 The only place I have lived where a bank account is really optional is in the Republic of Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/84 "2013-11-02T12:26:40Z")
It seems that Spain is far more restrictive than other countries in respect of cash. In the UK, it would be perfectly possible to live without a bank account or credit card. If one buys a car privately on ebay, it is normal to turn up with cash, because no one would trust any other form of payment, even £5000 or more. My niece pays her utility bills in cash, by buying a card at the Post Office and slotting it into her prepayment meter - this is how most poor people do it. Employers rarely pay cash (unless they are operating outside the law), and people without a bank account will go to a shop that advertises that they cash cheques - the fee they charge is frequently extortionate. Bankrupts often use this method to stop a payment being visible in their accounts. I am sure that HMRC are looking closely at the workings of FACTA, to see if something similar could be used here to catch some of the many tax exiles we seem to have. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/85 "2013-11-02T14:41:30Z")
EU Cash Limits by country [http://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user\_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF\_EN/Limit\_for\_cash\_payments\_in\_EU.pdf](http://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/86 "2013-11-02T15:21:27Z")
Can you do an all-online bank like Ally? > **[Mobile and Online Banking: Open an Account Today | Ally Bank®](https://www.ally.com/bank/online-banking/)** > > Online banking with a sense of purpose. Ally offers industry-leading online banking services. Convenient & secure banking. Ally Bank, Member FDIC. > [@](#): > > We are a branch-free bank. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/87 "2013-11-02T16:50:59Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > In Prague everything is done by bank transfer. Nothing like utilities can normally be paid in cash, though you can pay in cash at the bank of the account holder (which means different banks for different utility companies). Like in Spain, they make it very inconvenient to do it this way. There are no cheques in the Czech Republic. Was the link I posted above saying that utility bills in Prague can be paid in cash at post offices incorrect? While I know banking is pervasive throughout the EU, and not having banking services is a big pain in the ass (just as it is in the U.S. outside of fringier parts of the economy) according to EU statistics 15% of Czech households (and closer to 22% for poor households) do not have bank accounts. I assume they’re not all homeless and/or sitting in the dark without heat. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/88 "2013-11-02T17:35:39Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It seems that Spain is far more restrictive than other countries in respect of cash. In the UK, it would be perfectly possible to live without a bank account or credit card. In France, lacking a credit card wouldn’t be an issue, but you’d definitely need a bank account (note that if no bank accepts you as a customer, the national bank, at your request, will designate one that will have to offer basic services. I assume it applies too to foreign residents). Utilities can be paid in cash, and so can rent. Telephone…not so sure it’s still possible. Salaries are wired (It’s possible that handing a pay cheque is allowed, but I never heard of being paid that way, and I’m close to 50 yo). You can’t cash a cheque (not even in a bank, since that requires specific cheque forms that most people or businesses don’t use), only deposit it on your account. You can’t pay any significant amount in cash (not sure of the exact amount, but I believe it’s lower than the Spanish € 3000). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/89 "2013-11-02T20:31:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I understand why there may be concern over US residents putting money in foreign banks but let’s face it, I don’t think anyone is using the UK or Germany as tax haven. Depends on how you define “the UK”: the Channel Islands and Gibraltar _are_ used as tax havens. > [@sailor](#): > > By law, in Spain payments over 3000 euros _must_ be by bank. You cannot buy a car with cash. Period. You can use a cashier’s check. And if you’re buying from Some Dude on the Street, yes you can buy a car with cash. Just don’t expect anything resembling a warranty and don’t be surprised if you get hit for overdue tickets and taxes from before you bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/90 "2013-11-02T20:32:51Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Was the link I posted above saying that utility bills in Prague can be paid in cash at post offices incorrect? > > While I know banking is pervasive throughout the EU, and not having banking services is a big pain in the ass (just as it is in the U.S. outside of fringier parts of the economy) according to EU statistics 15% of Czech households (and closer to 22% for poor households) do not have bank accounts. I assume they’re not all homeless and/or sitting in the dark without heat. If they are still in State housing I am not sure how that works - I believe the State pays for it. They are working to undo that system from the Communist era. The building next to us is still State-owned - they are usually easy to tell by the state of disrepair. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/91 "2013-11-03T02:40:56Z")
The US government must be aware of the legion of problems this is causing. Does anyone know if _anyone_ is trying to address these? Even if it’s a lone senator or congressman? As for “check-cashing places,” they’re nonexistent anywhere in Asia, as far as I can tell. Never mind payroll checks, checks period are rare. I’ve personally seen maybe a handful of checks in my time over here, outside of AIA. I’ve known only one person who even had a checking account, a Thai. I do receive an AIA insurance check once a year as a policy dividend, dunno why they still do it like that, but outside of that, you never see a check. I can’t imagine a store taking a check. Even automobiles are paid with by cash, generally a money transfer. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/92 "2013-11-04T18:25:42Z")
What can the IRS actually do to US citizens living abroad with no assets in the US? What if the citizen worked in europe for a global company? What if the citizen visited the USA for a business trip or a holiday? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/93 "2013-11-04T18:33:26Z")
Not directly related to the question in the OP, but I’m curious. From previous threads, I gathered that the reason that **Desert Nomad** lived overseas was that a preexisting condition prevented him from buying individual health insurance in the US. As I believe that issue was addressed in the Obamacare legislation, have you considered moving back to the States? Based on this thread, I take it the answer is no. So at this point are you just happier living in Europe and the Middle East? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/94 "2013-11-04T19:03:32Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > What can the IRS actually do to US citizens living abroad with no assets in the US? > What if the citizen worked in europe for a global company? > What if the citizen visited the USA for a business trip or a holiday? It’s what they do to the banks. If the bank won’t cooperate, they can make it impossible for them to do business with the Banks that do business with the USA. Add to that the threat that if they slip up, the USA can arbitrarily put sanctions on that bank… and that the USA does not care how difficult it is to meet the reporting requirements, and whether they contradict privacy laws in the home country… Simplest course of action for the bank is to say “why should we bother dealing with US citizens if they are a very minor part of our business? Begone!” I suppose the question I have is, if a person has dual nationality how would a bank in their home country even know they were an American citizen, unless that wa a question on the application (which it probably was not 10 years ago)? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/95 "2013-11-04T19:13:44Z")
I went into my British bank last year, where I had opened my account as an American, and brought my other passport and asked them to change my citizenship. They thought I was strange, but they did it. The field only had an option for one citizenship. I’m sure the account history shows that I was an American, but as far as the bank is concerned the only principal on the account is a Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/96 "2013-11-04T19:16:42Z")
I second those who strongly advise against renouncing citizenship without acquiring another one first. Even with another citizenship up your sleeve, it’s a bad idea; you may think that since you have no intention of ever going back to America you don’t need it, but let me assure you it’s highly likely that there is some tiny little aspect that you’re currently not thinking of where a loss of citizenship can be really detrimental, maybe not now but in a few decades. Don’t. Renouncing citizenship without having another one is an even worse idea. It places you, essentially, at the whim of whatever country you’re currently residing in, with no place to go if they decide for whatever reason to revoke your residency status. Don’t, don’t, don’t. As for your problem: I find it hard to believe that there is no bank in the Czech Republic willing to accept American customers. They may be hard to find, and they may be less attractive with the other conditions attached to the account (such as fees, interest rates, etc), but there surely is one that can accomodate you. If you absolutely cannot find one, try Germany; it’s sufficiently close to go there in person to open the account when needed, the banking market is rather competitive there with a lot of banks competing for customers, and there’s a lot of American expats in the country to make it likely that there’s a bank with established processes for dealing with all the forms. Current EU legislation (SEPA) makes it possible to utilise a German bank accounts for direct wire transfer into the Czech Republic. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/97 "2013-11-05T00:08:10Z")
If the OP really wants to renounce his US citizenship, seems like the Czech republic does in some cases grant citizenship to stateless people if they’ve been residing in the Czech Republic for five years and can speak the language. [http://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/article/granting-nationality-of-the-czech-republic.aspx](http://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/article/granting-nationality-of-the-czech-republic.aspx) If you really want to go down this route get a good immigration lawyer, good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/98 "2013-11-06T15:39:08Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > As for your problem: I find it hard to believe that there is no bank in the Czech Republic willing to accept American customers. They may be hard to find, and they may be less attractive with the other conditions attached to the account (such as fees, interest rates, etc), but there surely is one that can accomodate you. If you absolutely cannot find one, try Germany; it’s sufficiently close to go there in person to open the account when needed, the banking market is rather competitive there with a lot of banks competing for customers, and there’s a lot of American expats in the country to make it likely that there’s a bank with established processes for dealing with all the forms. Current EU legislation (SEPA) makes it possible to utilise a German bank accounts for direct wire transfer into the Czech Republic. I haven’t checked with the embassy here, because it’s not that much of a problem yet. But I’m wondering if American Services at the US Embassy in Prague would be able to point the OP to an appropriately welcoming bank. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/99 "2013-11-06T15:44:19Z")
I find it utterly appalling that anyone would give up their American citizenship for any reason. It is beyond contemptible. Threadshit complete. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691/100 "2013-11-06T15:52:20Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > I find it utterly appalling that anyone would give up their American citizenship for any reason. It is beyond contemptible. Could you explain this? I have contemplated giving up my citizenship, though on balance I’ve decided against doing so while my parents are alive. I really don’t understand why it’s a moral issue or why it would arouse strong feelings. I didn’t ask to be a citizen, and while I have tried to be a good citizen and America has tried to be a good country, sometimes it’s just not a good fit. I would appreciate it if you could help me understand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-us-citizenship-to-get-a-bank-account/672691.md?page=6)