# Renouncing your only citizenship?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 3, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315 "2012-01-03T23:39:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/1 "2012-01-03T23:39:46Z")
I was reading a blog written by a guy who went to Slovakia as a tourist and then while there renounced his USA citizenship.
[http://www.nostate.com/](http://www.nostate.com/)
Its a long story with a lot of posts, but the most relevent one is here:
[http://www.nostate.com/1206/i-surrendered-my-us-passport-today/](http://www.nostate.com/1206/i-surrendered-my-us-passport-today/)
After this he went and filed some paperwork claiming to be a stateless person/refugee and received a special stateless person passport which only allows him to move inside the European Union and maybe not even that.
He was filing for residency in Slovakia but never said if he got it, he mentioned in one post he was being supported by a girl and in his latest post begs for cash I’m assuming since he cannot work. :smack:
Apparently the USA will allow you to renounce your citizenship as long as you’re outside the USA, even if you have no other citizenship or even permanent residency status in the country you’re in. This leaves you pretty much stuck with no good options, your only hope being trying to use the stateless person/refugee angle.
So what happens to this guy now if Slovakia decides they don’t want him? Deport him back to the USA, but he is no longer a citizen so how would that work? Are countires really going to put up with this for long, having USA citizens come there renounce and basically stranding themselves somewhere they cannot even work and support themselves? Can they complain to the USA government?
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### Author:  [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/2 "2012-01-03T23:48:05Z")
I was surprised, but it appears you can renounce US citizenship even if it would make you stateless. I’m British - the British government does not allow this. But from the [State Department](http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html):
[QUOTE=US State Department]
Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.
[/QUOTE]
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/3 "2012-01-04T00:48:47Z")
The state department page says that renouncing citizenship is “irrevocable” but it doesn’t say anything about re-applying. Unless he got married it seems that he is still eligible for a green card as the child of a US citizen. Then presumably after your 5 years permanent resident you can become a citizen again.
My money is on him quietly applying for a green card to come home when he gets tired of making his point and being penniless in Slovakia.
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### Author:  [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/4 "2012-01-04T02:36:28Z")
International law forbids a state from revoking citizenship (and creating a stateless person), though I’m not sure how multi-citizens are treated. I’ve never heard of someone doing it the other way around… Even ships have to have a home port, at least on paper, don’t they? Interesting case, though.
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### Author:  [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/5 "2012-01-04T02:40:35Z")
> [@dorsk188](#):
>
> **International law forbids a state from revoking citizenship (and creating a stateless person), though I’m not sure how multi-citizens are treated.** I’ve never heard of someone doing it the other way around… Even ships have to have a home port, at least on paper, don’t they? Interesting case, though.
Emphasis mine.
Do you have a cite for this? I’m not saying I think you’re wrong, but I’d be interested to know more. The UK will not allow a citizen to renounce citizenship if it would make them stateless, but apparently the US does allow this.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/6 "2012-01-04T02:43:15Z")
[The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/841/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship).
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/7 "2012-01-04T03:32:10Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#):
>
> Emphasis mine.
>
> Do you have a cite for this?.
Looks like the 1961 Convention on the reduction of statelessness. UK is a signatory but the US is not.
> **[Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness)**
>
> The Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness is a 1961 United Nations multilateral treaty whereby sovereign states agree to reduce the incidence of statelessness. The convention was originally intended as a Protocol to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, while the 1954 Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons was adopted to cover stateless persons who are not refugees and therefore not within the scope of the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.
> One c...
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### Author:  [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/8 "2012-01-04T03:49:10Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Looks like the 1961 Convention on the reduction of statelessness. UK is a signatory but the US is not.
>
> [Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness)
Interesting, thanks - it does seem to answer what I was asking.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/9 "2012-01-04T05:25:19Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> My money is on him quietly applying for a green card to come home when he gets tired of making his point and being penniless in Slovakia.
Interestingly enough The Master’s article contains these portions:
> [@](#):
>
> The State Department cited Mari Brás’ own behavior after renouncing his U.S. citizenship in its reversal. The letter, signed by Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary Katherine Peterson, noted that when Mari Brás took his Oath of Renunciation in 1994, he acknowledged that he would become an alien with respect to laws and procedures regarding entry and control of aliens. Mari Brás’ subsequent decision to continue living in Puerto Rico without registering as an alien showed he continued to exercise the privileges of U.S. citizenship, which is inconsistent with renunciation, the Department declared.
> [@](#):
>
> In the recent case of Colón v. U.S. Department of State, 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, “claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States.” See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America, 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.
>
> A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of citizenship. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.
It would seem to me applying for permanent residency after renunciation is pretty clearly behavior inconsistent with renouncing citizenship, so I wonder if he could go to court over it. It is interesting that the state department can at a whim reverse a renunciation.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/10 "2012-01-04T05:51:10Z")
Info found at the US state departments website is even more confusing [404 - Page Not Found](http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Renunciation of American citizenship does not necessarily prevent a former citizen’s deportation from a foreign country to the United States as an alien.
So Slovakia could deport him to the USA, where he would not be a citizen. What would happen at that point? Just rot in a immigration holding cell?
> [@](#):
>
> Those persons who, after careful consideration of the contents of this letter and its enclosures, desire to renounce U.S. citizenship may contact the U.S. embassy to make an appointment, \<\\>, or failing that, evidence that they intend to enter the United States as an alien with documentation to that effect. Moreover, a person in possession of a U.S. passport will be asked to submit that passport to the U.S. consular officer for cancellation. If the certificate of loss of nationality is approved by the U.S. Department of State, the individual’s name will be entered in the Department’s name check system and they will be ineligible for U.S. passports in the future.
I wonder how he got around that requirement? And it says he will be ineligible for a passport in the future, does that mean you’re not allowed to reacquire citizenship through naturalization?
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### Author:  [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/11 "2012-01-04T06:42:37Z")
Just for reference -
In a recent case in Singapore the govt refused to allow a citizen to renounce his citizenship, even though he had legal and proper citizenship in another state. And he wasn’t a criminal either.
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### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/12 "2012-01-04T06:49:09Z")
All right. So when I hit the money jackpot and leave the US, I’m renouncing my citizenship for tax purposes and hoping a new country takes me in.
That’s a new piece of info, though, seriously. I thought you weren’t “allowed” to be stateless.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/13 "2012-01-04T11:12:16Z")
Note what Cecil says about US Embassy employees trying hard to discourage you from doing this. Like making you come back multiple times, etc. They really don’t want to do this.
A rather famous example is Lee Harvey Oswald.
He tried to renounce his American citizenship when he was living & working in the USSR, had married a Russian wife, etc. In the end, the embassy prevented this by basically letting his paperwork sit on someones desk, and never sending it back to the US State Department to be processed, and he didn’t persist in following up on this. (That eventually worked to his benefit, when he bacame tired of Russia and he and wanted to return to the US with his wife. (Whether our country would have been better off if the embassy workers had efficiently processed his renunciation is a different question.)
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### Author:  [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/14 "2012-01-04T17:43:31Z")
Nobody ever mentions Garry Davis ?
> **[Garry Davis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Davis)**
>
> Sol Gareth "Garry" Davis (27 July 1921 – 24 July 2013) was an international peace activist best known for renouncing his American citizenship and interrupting the United Nations in 1948 to advocate for world government as a way to end nationalistic wars.
> His actions gained international attention, including support from intellectuals such as Albert Camus and Albert Einstein, but ridicule from Eleanor Roosevelt.
> Davis, a World Federalist, founded the non-profit World Service Authority in 1953 ...
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/15 "2012-01-05T00:08:38Z")
This webpage claims:
[http://renunciationguide.com/Rights-After-Expatriation.html](http://renunciationguide.com/Rights-After-Expatriation.html)
“There are no temporary renunciations or options to re-acquire U.S. citizenship. In contrast, a British citizen is allowed to renounce his citizenship in order to acquire another nationality, and then later reapply for and “resume” his British citizenship at a future date. In the U.S., there is no such provision. Once you renounce, you can never resume your citizenship.”
I would have thought there would be examples of individuals that have tried to reacquire US citizenship and we could get a definite answer but my google fu is not finding examples.
Maybe the US gets around it by instead allowing people to invalidate their own renunciation? Eg get an immigration Lawyer to claim that you didn’t understand the consequences of being stateless so you didn’t really mean to renounce US citizenship. The US can then let you back in and still maintain the fiction that it’s impossible to reacquire US citizenship once renounced.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/16 "2012-01-05T19:37:57Z")
I know someone–a former PhD student of mine–who crossed the Canadian border to avoid the draft in 1969. He received immigrant status at the border (as was common in those days–I think it was payback for the time Trudeau had been declared “undesirable” and refused entry to the US), got on the first train to Montreal and renounced his citizenship when he got here. With his Canadian immigration card he was able to get a document called a Nansen passport (for a very fragmentary description, see [Nansen passport - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen_passport)) that did allow him to travel, although he had to get visas from every country he went to and prove that he could return to Canada. Five years later he became a citizen and got a real passport. A few years after that, the charges were dropped and he was able to cross the border to the US. There was no particular difficulty in his renouncing the citizenship. He couldn’t get a US passport and it was the only way he could travel.
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/17 "2012-01-06T12:51:19Z")
I’m curious about Gary Davis. His blog says he lives in Vermont. How is he able to stay in the US if he renounced his citizenship?
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### Author:  [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/18 "2012-01-06T13:20:46Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#):
>
> Nobody ever mentions Garry Davis ?
>
> [Garry Davis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Davis)
[Or Nasseri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri)
/Tangentially related, but still interesting.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/19 "2012-01-06T17:34:28Z")
> [@Diceman](#):
>
> I’m curious about Gary Davis. His blog says he lives in Vermont. How is he able to stay in the US if he renounced his citizenship?
Same way everyone else who isn’t a citizen but has legal permanent residency does: a green card (USCIS Form I-551).
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/renouncing-your-only-citizenship/608315/20 "2012-01-06T17:51:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Same way everyone else who isn’t a citizen but has legal permanent residency does: a green card (USCIS Form I-551).
Actually some things I was reading mention the Canadian loophole where since at the time border crossing between the US and Canada was very lax and did not require a passport people were renouncing their US citizenship in Canada and then crossing back over with their birth cert or driver’s license or whatever.
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