You are factually incorrect. What the OP is attempting to do is find the best (legal) course of action. You are instructed not to abet fraud on this message board. Got a problem with rental car companies? Take it to the Pit.
Thanks, manhattan.
For the record, it’s happened to me - a rental car was keyed while I had it - and I pointed out the damage when I returned it.
Because, Early Out, I don’t believe in screwing anyone out of their due… as it happened, my credit card coverage meant I had no liability, but I didn’t know that at the time, and was prepared to pay the damages.
well i once rented a car and hitting abig speed bump knocked the front air dam off. i just got some epoxy and glued it back on. no one noticed this despited that it was pretty scraped up from the collision. i say just return it you might get some real anal retentive guy checking out your car , but i doubt it.
Hey, manhattan, I’m not the one suggesting any sort of fraud - that was another poster. I’m just pointing out that what you pay for a car rental covers normal wear and tear. The factual question, one that I can’t answer, alas, is whether a little scrape is considered normal wear and tear, for which the renter would not be held liable, or whether it’s considered damage above and beyond normal wear and tear, for which you’d be expected to fork over some repair money.
As I indirectly pointed out in my post, offering to chip in for a brake job would be unnecessary - the rental company is already covering the cost of periodically repairing the brakes. If one were to chip in for that, one wouldn’t be giving the rental company their due. One would be unjustly enriching the rental company, and would qualify for the “patsy” label, IMO.
Is there anyone out there who knows how a rental car company regards minor scratches and dings? If they consider it normal wear and tear, failing to point it out to them is, in fact, the perfectly legal and correct course of action.
I have no problem with rental car companies. Frankly, I’m a little puzzled about what makes you think I do.
occ posted (bolding mine):
'While there, they offer me the usual insurance, and being that it costs $15+ per day, and I figure its worth the risk, I decline to purchase it.
…
I have an acquaintance who does fairly inexpensive paint work; would it be a good idea to have him do the bumper, ** simply not tell the rental company about the incident**’
Not telling the car rental company is certainly immoral (I don’t know if it’s illegal).
If occ chooses to ‘take the risk’, why shouldn’t he pay the consequences?
Should this message board be aiding him?
This may or may not be factually correct (sounds like opinion to me), but it’s irrelevant.
(Disclaimer: IANAL)
This is an arm’s-length commercial transaction. Each party’s obligations are specified in the rather lengthy contract that the renter signs when he picks up the car. I haven’t read one of these fine-print beasties in a long time, so I honestly don’t remember exactly what they specify. However, if that contract contains a clause whereby the renter agrees to report all damage to the car, then he’s obligated to report it (putting aside for the moment the question of what “damage” is, as opposed to normal wear and tear - if you’ve driven the car even one block, you’re not returning it in precisely the same condition).
If there is no such clause in the contract, then there is no obligation to report it. I can’t imagine any legal theory under which one could assert that the renter owes some sort of unspecified fiduciary duty to guard the rental company’s interests. That’s why they check over the car when you return it; they’re the parties to the contract who are responsible for guarding their interests.
In any event, morality doesn’t enter into it; the relationship is contractual. This is how commercial transactions operate in a capitalist system.
Even if he is contractually obligated to report the damage, his failure to do so would be a matter of contractual breach; there is no criminal statute involved, AFAIK. On the other hand, if the renter is asked about the damage and lies about it, you’ve wandered into fraud territory, and the local prosecutor might take an interest in the matter.
Actually glee if he has his friend fix the problem and returns the car back in the condition it was in at time of rental I do not see this as imoral at all.
Paying his friend who paints cars to fix it will most likely be cheaper in the long run than reporting it to the insurance where he has to pay it all anyway since he has a high deductable (if it even applies) His rates go up and all kinds of fun.
Hell, if I borrowed a lawnmower and hit a rock and bent the blades I sure would get a new blade or have the old repaired (if possible) before I return it. I would see no problem with not mentioning it.
Indeed, that looks like a sound legal position to me (I am not a lawyer either).
I haven’t read the contract, but I know how to make deductions:
- So occ knows there’s a risk.
- Hire a friend to do work, eh? So occ knows he’s supposed to tell the company.
- occ didn’t want to pay insurance, which would have ‘saved him’?
Draw your own conclusions…
So your principle would also apply here:
Someone else rents a car, has an serious accident, pays a friend to repair it, doesn’t say anything, the returned car then fails, causing an accident.
Would that be immoral?
Well using a false name in the first place would be ‘cheaper’. :rolleyes:
Remember, he turned down insurance for precisely this contingency.
Well you ain’t borrowing anything off me, then!
And (as above) if your ‘repair’ turned out to be dodgy and there was an accident - would you say anything then?
The insurance would have saved me, but its still a scam. Paying $15 per day simply means you don’t have to file it through your actual insurance, assuming an accident occurs. I have real car insurance. As well, has an “accident” occurred? From a legal definition, no. No police report has been filed, and the other party is nowhere to be found.
Did I “know I’m supposed to tell the company”? Uhh, I’m supposed to tell the company in the company’s opinion, I’m sure. However, am I legally obliged to do so? No. Am I “morally” obliged to do so? This, frankly, depends on your personal morals. I don’t feel any particular moral obligation to prostrate myself to Huge Rental Car Company over this minor damage. Would they go out of their way to tell me how I can minimize my cost and maximize theirs? No. Why should I be held to a different standard? This is a business transaction, and like any business transaction there are multiple parties vying for economic advantage. If one is foolish enough to submit too much to the other, they will be taken advantage of.
Honestly, the “proof” above of my “guilt” assumes written-in-stone rules that pertain to this situation. I think most would agree that this is not the case – other than, perhaps, the laws which govern this situation. As no laws are being broken, particular feelings about whether I’m “doing the right thing” are moot.
occ, why don’t you call the car rental agency & ask them if you have to pay for it or not?
**
I am sorry what part of “…returns the car back in the condition it was in at time of rental …” was so hard to digest? Maybe I should have elaborated a bit better. More later in this post.
I agree using a false name is indeed wrong when filing a claim. no arguements there.
Fair enough. Besides, your on the other side of the pond. A bit far to borrow a chainsaw or a cup of sugar
Once again "…returns the car back in the condition it was in at time of rental… " I by no condone doing a patchwork job to “get by” and slip out of a responsiblity. I only offered the thought since he knows a professional who can and does this kind of repair and that it would be less expensive for him to go this route. We are talking about a small gash that effected the paint on his bumper. Not structual damage to the unibody frame.
Somehow I am thinking you and I are not near as far off in thought. Hopefully this post has cleared it up and you can quit the :rolleyes: in my general direction.
A few comments.
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An “accident” did occur. Just because the damage is not greater, and you chose not to report it to the police, does not take away the fact that it occured. Indeed, I bet your insurance policy has a nice lengthy definition of an “accident” or an “occurrence” and this situation would apply
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You can not pretend the damage was there when you got it. Most car rental places inspect the damage beforehand and have renter sign off on the inspection report. If the damage is not noted, even if it was there before you rented, you are responsible for it
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I assume when you rented the carrier information was requested by the car company. They can file the report themselves on your policy. In some instances the carrier can rescind the policy because you did not report the claim to them, and because you attempted to defraud the car rental company. The car rental company can sue you.
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If the damage is indeed so minimal, and you want to avoid getting your carrier involved, I would recommend getting an estimate for the repair, and when you return the car offering to pay the amount of the estimate up front. If they see you are attempting to cooperate, they will likely accept your offer.
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Personally, I think the mentality that it is OK to defaud or steal from large faceless companies a tad strange. What if they rented you a car with faulty brakes? After all, it is just a business relationship, and they do not know you. Like it or not, you entered into a business arrangement, and there are obligations on both parties, pursuant to contract and your state law. They fulfilled their bargain by giving you a safe car for the time you needed. You must return it in a substantially similar condition and reveal any issues with it. There are no written in stone rules, but you chose to sign a contract and must abide by it. If you did not want to, you had other options- you could use a bus, taxi, borrow a car from someone who does not require a contract.
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Glee’s comment (hello, glee :)) about having a car in a wreck is a valid one. Assuming you did have a car in a large accident, and had a friend repair it perfectly. Would you not tell the car rental place about it?
How about this, to keep it factual in GQ: how about someone who has a COMPLETE rental car agreement from a recognized company where it most specifically does NOT say you are obligated to report any and all accidents, just slap it down on a scanner and post a link to it?
I’m betting absolutely no one will be able to do this.
What is moral and ethical is not always the same as whats legal. The rental company wants to charge $15 a day (or $5475 a year) for insurance and that is only to cover your deductable (if it is like the place I got my rental car from). This is an obvious rip off and I would say it is not moral or ethical yet it is legal.
The car rental company will probably also charge you for ‘loss of use’ while the car is being repired. So you have to pay what they could rent it out for while it sits at the body shop. If buisness is slow and they wouldn’t rent it out anyway they could just let it sit at the body shop until they get around to fixing it. This is legal according to their contract also.
But you should do what is legal and ethical and point out the damage to the rental company. [sub]But personally I would have my friend fix it.[/sub]
I’ve had two incidents with hire cars. The thing to do is be honest. The first time was very shortly after picking up the car in the evening - the next morning I noticed small chips. I phoned the rental co and we agreed that the chips might well have been there beforehand. The second time I was on holiday in a rented car and got a nice big scratch on one side. Very noticable. I used a paint stick to fill in and then coloured wax to protect it, and spoke to the rental co as soon as I could, and they just told me not to worry about it.
Honesty is often the best policy.
qts, I agree, its important to talk to the rental company. Sometimes they won’t count something like this anyway.
I rented a car in the UK and toured it all around England and Scotland - some of those Scotish back country roads are a little rough and a few dings were put on the car.
The rental company said not to worry about it - normal wear and tear.
I really think your best, safest bet is to mention the scratch, and any remidies you’ve made to it. They’ll probably just tell you not to worry.
I worried about this last time I rented a car, so I called my car insurance rep and asked her if I could buy coverage for the rental. She said that I already had coverage in the form of my liability coverage. Basically if I damage the rental then I am liable for it since it isn’t mine, therefor it’s covered.
Now there are two caveats to that:
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Since you weren’t driving when it happened there might be a problem claiming on liability, dunno bout that one.
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This doesn’t apply to you, but were you to be in an accident and at fault your liability insurance would have to cover both the other car and your rental. Here in Texas the legal minimum is $15K, which doesn’t begin to cover a single car, let alone two, if the cars have to be totally replaced.
My advice, for everyone that owns a car is to jack up their liability coverage to at least $50k.
I’d read my insurance policy very carefully before relying on this approach - it sounds to me as if your insurance rep is confused.
Liability insurance covers you if your driving causes personal injury to someone else, or damage to someone else’s property (e.g., you drive your car into someone’s living room). It doesn’t cover damage to the vehicle you’re driving at the time, no matter who owns it. In addition, my policy, and I believe it’s typical, specifically excludes damage to any property that is rented to me.
If you have collision and comprehensive insurance coverage, on the other hand, that often does cover damage to a rental car.