# Rep. Betty McCollum proposes ACORN Act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772 "2009-10-06T03:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/21 "2009-10-06T16:06:22Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Uh, no they’re not. I await your cite. > > (Suggestion: stop unquestioningly swallowing what the rightwing media feeds you. Do some of your own research. Just because Rush says it doesn’t make it so. True fact.) The Democratic party is bailing on them. The last time I checked they didn’t listen to Rush Limbaugh. Figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/22 "2009-10-06T16:14:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, you realize by sidestepping the question so unsubtly you’ve indicated very clearly that you support the government funding of criminals? > > Answer the question. In light of your contributions to this thread, it’s a fair one. That or admit you hadn’t given it much thought when you posted and you got it kinda wrong. I answered the question. There is nothing ambiguous about my position. If Pfizer breaks the law, it should be fined and anyone responsible punished. Clearly I don’t support funding criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/23 "2009-10-06T16:32:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Democratic party is bailing on them. The last time I checked they didn’t listen to Rush Limbaugh. Figure it out. None of those three sentences speak to whether ACORN is a tax funded political organization. Please try again. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/24 "2009-10-06T16:42:01Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Uh, no they’re not. I await your cite. > > (Suggestion: stop unquestioningly swallowing what the rightwing media feeds you. Do some of your own research. Just because Rush says it doesn’t make it so. True fact.) There are tax-exempt community arms and also political arms. In theory they are separate entities. Their own lawyer warned ACORN 15 months ago that there are not sufficient firewalls between these different arms and that the potential for abuse is large. See page 6 of this internal ACORN memo. [http://www.docstoc.com/docs/12364920/Vadum\_TheKingsleyMemo\_CapitalResearchCenter](http://www.docstoc.com/docs/12364920/Vadum_TheKingsleyMemo_CapitalResearchCenter) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/25 "2009-10-06T17:04:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m against ACORN because they are a tax funded political organization. In discussing ACORN, you need to use a rather specialized language. For instance, ACORN is not taxpayer-funded, they merely have received funding from the taxpayer. ([Cite.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/09/24/irs_puts_an_end_to_acorn_affiliation/)). The $31 million they have received from the taxpayer is different from funding that they would have received from taxes. See the difference? Similarly, they are definitely NOT a political organization - they are a organization dedicated to left-wing political action. And crime, of course. The mere fact that ACORN sees little or no difference between the two proves nothing, of course - ACORN didn’t do anything wrong. The people who worked for ACORN didn’t do anything wrong, either - they just pleaded guilty. And certainly no one can draw any conclusions from that. So, to sum up, “[there’s glory for you](http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap06.htm)!” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/26 "2009-10-06T17:10:07Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > No they aren’t. They most certainly are. They campaign for Democrats exclusively. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/27 "2009-10-06T17:14:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I answered the question. There is nothing ambiguous about my position. If Pfizer breaks the law, it should be fined and anyone responsible punished. Clearly I don’t support funding criminals. As I read this, ambiguity remains as to the question of any **linkage** between the two. If Pfizer breaks the law, should it continue to get fat federal contracts (not “funding,” but contracts) as it has in the past? That’s what McCollum’s bill is **about.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/28 "2009-10-06T17:19:30Z")
[“ACORN is a nonpartisan organization, but its legally separate political action arm frequently champions left-leaning causes, and endorsed Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama in 2008.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN#ACORN_in_political_discourse) Perfectly kosher – same dodge that allows big corporations to get federal contracts and use part of the money to fund pro-GOP PACs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/29 "2009-10-06T17:27:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As I read this, ambiguity remains as to the question of any **linkage** between the two. If Pfizer breaks the law, should it continue to get fat federal contracts (not “funding,” but contracts) as it has in the past? That’s what McCollum’s bill is **about.** Should the Federal Government do business with Pfizer? If it’s a proper business deal, absolutely. Pfizer is a real company and not bunch of political shell organizations. Her “bill” is nothing but a publicity stunt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/30 "2009-10-06T17:29:34Z")
You have a rare gift for economy of language, **Shodan**. You have managed to load a vast amount of lies and innuendo into a very concise packet of words. The Republican Party, Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, and ACORN all have had legal issues of late. Republican Party operatives undermined and corrupted the Justice Dept. for political gain. Halliburton has several problems with criminal negligence issues arising from the electrocution deaths of American servicemen. Blackwater/XE? Well, murder and mayhem, simply put. And of course, ACORN, the most subtle and pervasive criminal conspiracy since SPECTRE. All of the above have cashed US Gov taxpayer checks. Hence, are “taxpayer funded”. And yet only that last one seems to draw your ire and attention. Their crimes are odious, are they? More odious than subverting our Constitution? More odious than murder? More odious than electrocuting American servicemen by shoddy contract work? I wonder which is the more repulsive: that you are willing to say these things, or that you might actually believe them? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/31 "2009-10-06T17:35:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Pfizer is a real company and not bunch of political shell organizations. How do you know that? How do you know, for instance, that Pfizer does not have or contribute to any PACs that do partisan election campaigning? If it does, then federal money is going for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/32 "2009-10-06T17:57:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How do you know that? How do you know, for instance, that Pfizer does not have or contribute to any PACs that do partisan election campaigning? If it does, then federal money is going for that purpose. So you don’t want any Federal money spent on organizations with PAC money. That would be EVERYBODY. Your own cite showed Pfizer gave Democrats more money than Republicans last election. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/33 "2009-10-06T18:05:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So you don’t want any Federal money spent on organizations with PAC money. That would be EVERYBODY. Your own cite showed Pfizer gave Democrats more money than Republicans last election. Oh well in that case forget it! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/34 "2009-10-06T18:09:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So you don’t want any Federal money spent on organizations with PAC money. That would be EVERYBODY. Your own cite showed Pfizer gave Democrats more money than Republicans last election. I’m merely pointing out that “political shell” ACORN is not essentially different from “real company” Pfizer in this regard, and sauce for the goose, etc. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/35 "2009-10-06T18:13:48Z")
Lefty hypocrisy here! Everybody come see the lefty hypocrisy! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/36 "2009-10-06T18:14:17Z")
I’ll freely admit to knowing nothing about this, but the OP talks about a Federal act to de-fund ACORN. This rather implies that ACORN is receiving money from the Federal government. The Federal government’s money comes from taxes. That ACORN acts towards particular political goals is, I believe, undisputed. If our taxes don’t go to ACORN, then obviously the Federal government can’t cease giving them money, in which case the act in the OP is pointless. The Democratic “rebuttal” act would thereby be being written against something that has no effect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/37 "2009-10-06T18:33:56Z")
ACORN has a uniquely advantageous position in that one regard. Their efforts to bring voter registration and empowerment to the “underclass” (for want of a better word…) has definite and distinct political effect: it gives aid and comfort to the Democrats, as they are the party most sympathetic to their needs. As Thomas Jefferson remarked “Well, _duh_!” Since the tighty rightys are so prone to lachrymose bloviation about the “common man” and the virtue of democracy, they are hoist on their own retard, here. How can they oppose voter registration drives, which empowers citizens? How can any patriotic American be so opposed, given that voting is to democracy what communion is to Christianity? Well, they can’t, can they? I suppose the could change their political positions and programs so that they favor the underprivileged, rather than slobbering the pork sword of bankers and businessmen. They _could_, I suppose. But they won’t, and we know they won’t. They propose to rid us of this horrible conspiracy, whereupon their “criminal” actions will cease. But then, of course, so will all the rest, so will the voter registration drives cease. See anyone proposing to replace them? See anyone saying “Well, we’ll take ACORN out, and put someone _else_ to work registering the poor and disenfranchised, and toot damn sweet, too!” As far as I’m concerned, that ACORN’s work favors the Dems because the Dems are more sympathetic to the concerns of the underclass isn’t ACORN’s fault, its the Pubbies fault. All they need do is abandon their reactionary and anti-populist stances, and all will be well. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/38 "2009-10-06T18:39:18Z")
Choice-point was paid by the government to get rid of as many likely Democratic voters as they could from voter rolls. I bet we want them to lose government funding too . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772/39 "2009-10-06T18:40:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > ACORN has a uniquely advantageous position in that one regard. Their efforts to bring voter registration and empowerment to the “underclass” (for want of a better word…) has definite and distinct political effect: it gives aid and comfort to the Democrats, as they are the party most sympathetic to their needs. As Thomas Jefferson remarked “Well, _duh_!” And, despite which effect, ACORN’s voter-registration efforts **as** ACORN (as distinct from its associated political organization’s campaigning, see post #28) **cannot** reasonably be characterized as “partisan.” Maximizing voter registration and turnout, after all, is one of those ostensibly partisan-neutral “good-government” civic services; relative partisan effects on electoral outcomes are incidental. There is not even any hypocrisy in this argument; we’ve been over it many times before in GD, and the hypocrisy only ever emerges when RWs try to come up with reasons why maximum voter turnout is **not** an unmixed civic blessing or why GOP voter-suppression tactics are not a civic crime. Generally they fall back on “voter fraud,” which does not really exist in America at present, and certainly not in connection with any of ACORN’s voter-registration activities last year – we’ve been over all of that many times in GD too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-betty-mccollum-proposes-acorn-act/512772.md?page=1)