# Rep. Mark Foley resigns over e-mails to teenage boys -- repercussions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735 "2006-09-30T14:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![GeorgiaBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cab0a1/32.png) [@GeorgiaBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GeorgiaBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/261 "2006-10-05T12:09:41Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] But we’re not talking just about finding them attractive. We’re talking about constantly and indiscriminately pursuing 16-year-olds (in a work situation, no less) with unsolicited personal, romantic and sexual attentions to the point that they routinely get warned about you by other employees. That kind of behavior, if not actually sick, is at least inappropriate, undesirable, and strongly suggestive of needing some help. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Someone who does this isn’t “sick”, he’s stupid and untrustworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/262 "2006-10-05T12:13:24Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] You and **Left Hand** are hung up on the idea that the Dems wouldn’t snatch this up. “Yeah, a scandal!” I don’t think they ever recognized it as a scandal. [/QUOTE] The head of a congressional committee devoted to protecting children from Internet stalkers was stalking children online. The idea that Democrats wouldn’t recognize that as a scandal is simply preposterous. Or, rather, it’s an extraordinary claim, for which the only evidence you’ve offered is waving your hands around and repeating it as if enough repitition will make it true. Please offer your evidence for the claim, or reconsider it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/263 "2006-10-05T12:16:46Z")
I’m not sure if this is a hijack, but one of the concerns I have about this whole sordid mess is for the kids who sent and received the emails. While I support the “public’s right to know”, I still am uncomfortable with the identity of the kid who took part in the IMs identity being given, especially after they tried so hard to keep the issue quiet. From my understanding, the kid never gave the IMs to anyone, nor gave anyone permission to use them; and that bothers me. There is no doubt in my mind that, eventually, this kid will be identified and will forever be “the IM boy”. In a mess like this, it’s too easy to forget the “victim”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/264 "2006-10-05T12:22:53Z")
It is kind of weird that the Pubbies haven’t jumped on the “Dems knew about it too!” bandwagon. I have trouble seeing the lack of evidence stopping them. All I can figure is that there’s TOO MUCH evidence on the Pubbie side so that if any manufactured scandal about “What did the Dems know and when?” would come back to bite the Pubbies in the ass, big time. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/265 "2006-10-05T12:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] The head of a congressional committee devoted to protecting children from Internet stalkers was stalking children online. The idea that Democrats wouldn’t recognize that as a scandal is simply preposterous. Or, rather, it’s an extraordinary claim, for which the only evidence you’ve offered is waving your hands around and repeating it as if enough repitition will make it true. Please offer your evidence for the claim, or reconsider it. Daniel [/QUOTE] And just to clarify if I may - evidence that it is alleged some media outlets knew is irrelevant. The media are not Dems. They, as the performance of the New York Times over Iraq and illegal wiretapping shows, are no more that ‘useful idiots’ for whoever is in power. Evidence that Dem politicians in a position to act had evidence on which to act - eg copies of the emails or an approach by someone involved. Before 2003, when Hastert knew. [Ex Foley aide cites 2003 warnings](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100400616_pf.html) > [@](#): > > A longtime chief of staff to disgraced former representative Mark Foley (R-Fla.) approached House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert’s office three years ago, repeatedly imploring senior Republicans to help stop Foley’s advances toward teenage male pages, the staff member said yesterday. > > The account by Kirk Fordham, who resigned yesterday from his job with another senior lawmaker, pushed back to 2003 or earlier the time when Hastert’s staff reportedly became aware of Foley’s questionable behavior concerning teenagers working on Capitol Hill. > > It raised new questions about Hastert’s assertions that senior GOP leaders were aware only of “over-friendly” e-mails from 2005 that they say did not raise alarm bells when they came to light this year. > > “The fact is, even prior to the existence of the Foley e-mail exchanges, I had more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest levels of the House of Representatives, asking them to intervene when I was informed of Mr. Foley’s inappropriate behavior,” said Fordham, who was Foley’s chief of staff for 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/266 "2006-10-05T13:28:50Z")
Face it, both Dems and Pubbies are equally sordid-Washington is a cesspool. I think it is time that ALL encumbents be tossed out-we need a deep enema! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/267 "2006-10-05T13:31:26Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Face it, both Dems and Pubbies are equally sordid-Washington is a cesspool. [/QUOTE] Again, this claim has no evidence. I have no problem with suggesting that Dems are more sordid, **as long as you have evidence to support the claim**. Right now, though, it makes sense that Pubs would be more sordid, since they’ve got the corrupting power. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/268 "2006-10-05T13:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Face it, both Dems and Pubbies are equally sordid-Washington is a cesspool. I think it is time that ALL encumbents be tossed out-we need a deep enema! [/QUOTE] The enema of a thousand miles begins with a single douchebag. Let’s just focus on the next step and toss the protectors of child molestors. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/269 "2006-10-05T13:52:03Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] The head of a congressional committee devoted to protecting children from Internet stalkers was stalking children online. The idea that Democrats wouldn’t recognize that as a scandal is simply preposterous. Daniel [/QUOTE] I think the implication was that the Democrats are such a party of perverts that they wouldn’t even recognize the scandal in something along this line. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/270 "2006-10-05T14:06:13Z")
The title of the thread asks if there will be “repercussions.” The general tenor of the last six pages has been, “Well, duh, of course there will be.” NPR story this morning: [not so much](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6200951). They sampled a dozen or so convervative rural voters and asked for their thoughts on the matter. The consensus: as long as the Republicans say they’re pro-life and continue attacking other countries who might have something to do with terrorism and all the rest, these voters will remain loyal, no matter who might be tainted by personal moral issues. The NPR story acknowledges that this is an informal survey and not true opinion research, but they mention that their preliminary anecdotal review is consistent with a more formal poll whose results will be officially released today. Looks to me like an interesting, if disappointing, corollary to similar reactions heard during the Clinton-Lewinsky brouhaha. Statements in the vein of “he’s a strong, charismatic man who has brought peace and prosperity, so we don’t care where he dips his wick” represent, it seems to me, more or less the same sort of denial as “they cut taxes, bomb evil foreigners, and give lip service to fetuses, so we don’t care if they’re sheltering creepy electronic kiddy-diddlers.” If the next couple of weeks suggests that the Dems will get no traction even on the basis of this awful scandal, then the run-up to the election is going to be _nasty._ (A desire to give lip service to fetuses, and a tolerance for kiddy-diddling. Hmmm.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/271 "2006-10-05T14:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] The title of the thread asks if there will be “repercussions.” The general tenor of the last six pages has been, “Well, duh, of course there will be.” NPR story this morning: [not so much](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6200951). They sampled a dozen or so convervative rural voters and asked for their thoughts on the matter. The consensus: as long as the Republicans say they’re pro-life and continue attacking other countries who might have something to do with terrorism and all the rest, these voters will remain loyal, no matter who might be tainted by personal moral issues. [/QUOTE] Compare to [this story](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1542636,00.html): > [@Time](#): > > Republicans have a new worry: Key social conservatives have issued blistering statements about the handling of the Foley matter, arguing that political correctness kept G.O.P. leaders from intervening earlier, and are making it clear that they are not giving Hastert and his team the benefit of the doubt. Republican pollsters are warning party officials that enthusiasm among their voters is waning from its already listless levels. And officials say the rebukes from Christian conservatives carry ominous implications for the midterm elections, when the G.O.P. will depend on these voters to turn out and work for the party’s candidates. “These are the people you need,” one dismayed official said. The jury’s still out. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/272 "2006-10-05T14:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Compare to [this story](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1542636,00.html): The jury’s still out. Daniel [/QUOTE] But the Diebold machines are in. The Gathering Of Perverts will retain both houses by the narrowest of margins, characterised by peculiar swings against otherwise accurate exit poll predictions in a few key areas. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/273 "2006-10-05T14:26:07Z")
I’m reminded of the recent thread about people voting for the right person for the wrong reasons (about Ohio voters not going to vote for the Republican gubernatorial candidate because he’s black). To me, if the Evangelicals stay home, that’s great. But it’s a little icky knowing that I’m cheering on people who might not vote for Republicans because the Republicans are too easy on Teh Gay. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/274 "2006-10-05T16:57:56Z")
Does anyone actually believe that the House Ethics Committee, perpetrators of the DeLay rule, will actually [get to the bottom of this?](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_on_go_co/congress_pages_81) > [@](#): > > The House Ethics Committee opened an investigation Thursday into the unfolding scandal over Rep. Mark Foley (news, bio, voting record)'s come-ons to congressional pages and accusations even by some Republicans that House speaker Dennis Hastert failed to protect the teens. [When the FBI covers up,](http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=73823) what are the chances that a committee paralyzed by partisan wankery will do better? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/275 "2006-10-05T17:04:29Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Does anyone actually believe that the House Ethics Committee, perpetrators of the DeLay rule, will actually [get to the bottom of this?](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_on_go_co/congress_pages_81) [/QUOTE] If they don’t appoint completely independent counsel to investigate, their credibilty will be looking up at whale shit, and this fiasco will only fester more. Personally, I hope they make that mistake, it will keep this on the front burner through the election. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/276 "2006-10-05T17:09:14Z")
At this point, I think the Republican party’s remarkable cohesion is falling apart: anyone who appears to belong to a coverup is getting tainted with the pedophile-enabler label. The Democrats aren’t likely to help the Ethics committee whitewash this. The Republican members of that committee will need to decide whether party loyalty or freedom from the pedophile-enabler label is more important to them. I suspect many of them will choose the latter, but it should be good TV either way. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/277 "2006-10-05T17:13:14Z")
A House Ethics investigation will provide some invaluable cover to Pubbies: a plausible excuse to STFU. “I can’t comment on that while an investigation is under way. Wouldn’t be right, wouldn’t be fair. Have to wait and see…” Rest assured that the investigation will proceed at breakneck speed. Do snails have necks? ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/278 "2006-10-05T18:26:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] If they don’t appoint completely independent counsel to investigate, their credibilty will be looking up at whale shit, and this fiasco will only fester more. Personally, I hope they make that mistake, it will keep this on the front burner through the election. [/QUOTE] Louis Freeh? Oh, I see. It’s Clintons fault. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/279 "2006-10-05T18:29:04Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] A House Ethics investigation will provide some invaluable cover to Pubbies: a plausible excuse to STFU. “I can’t comment on that while an investigation is under way. Wouldn’t be right, wouldn’t be fair. Have to wait and see…” Rest assured that the investigation will proceed at breakneck speed. Do snails have necks? [/QUOTE] The problem with this, I think, is that the media isn’t in a cooperative mood: they never are when pheremones are in the air. Sex sells; wait and see doesn’t. The media are going to keep this story front and center as long as they can, and the House Ethics Committee will either choose to lollygag or they’ll try to get in front of the story. Either way: good TV. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735/280 "2006-10-05T18:36:16Z")
True enough, **Dan** , but still…all the media can do is ask the question. They are not empowered to use “alternative interrogation techniques”, they can’t force an answer from someone unwilling to answer. And there is a huge difference in plausible deniability between “I won’t answer” and “I _cannot_ answer”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-mark-foley-resigns-over-e-mails-to-teenage-boys-repercussions/374735.md?page=15)