# Rep. Tom Cole (OK), you are an idiot. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589 "2004-03-04T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/21 "2004-03-05T05:16:46Z")
_[Cole] said that “If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election”_ This reflects what I think is a very common misconception: that bin Laden (and Islamist extremist terrorists in general) is somehow personally opposed to Bush’s presidency. Nonsense. Bush’s administration is in many ways the best thing that ever happened to the al-Qaeda cause (e.g., his ill-judged “crusade” remark after 9/11, his invasion of Iraq, his closeness to some openly anti-Muslim Christian conservatives, etc.). Anything that gets ordinary, non-fanatical Muslims outraged and fearful about the US is exactly what Islamist terrorists want, for the sake of furthering their goal of an all-out Islam-against-the-West battle. The last thing bin Laden and his ilk want to see in the Oval Office is a sensible, knowledgeable internationalist whom moderate Muslims feel they can trust, who wouldn’t be stoking Muslim sympathy for Islamist anti-West terrorism. Of course, Bush is an “opponent” of bin Laden in the sense that the US government is pushing hard to capture him, but any Democratic administration would do the same. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/22 "2004-03-05T13:25:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Huh. > > Well, that’s a lukewarm condemnation at best – certainly a far cry from “Listen, fucknut…” in your OP. > > Why in the world would you provide such a tepid response to ads that compare Bush to Hitler, and yet get so upset over a comment that compares Kerry to Hitler? Jeez, i thought you were a little more honest than that. The ad that won the MoveOn competition was the one showing children working in factories and making the point that the next generation will have to pay for the current Administration’s tax cuts and other economic boondoggles. This was the one, the only, ad that MoveOn attempted to have placed on television, only to be rejected by CBS. There were two (count 'em: 2) ads comparing Hitler to Bush among the hundreds of entries in the MoveOn competition. Neither of those ads even made the list of 15 overall finalists, or of the other twelve finalists in specific categories. Furthermore, MoveOn pulled those two ads from their website in short order, and released a [statement](http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html) that said, in part: > [@](#): > > None of these was our ad, nor did their appearance constitute endorsement or sponsorship by [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) Voter Fund. They will not appear on TV. We do not support the sentiment expressed in the two Hitler submissions. They were voted down by our members and the public, who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the process of choosing the 15 finalist entries. > > We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret that they slipped through our screening process. In the future, if we publish or broadcast raw material, we will create a more effective filtering system. On the whole, i thought the MoveOn people could have handled the brouhaha a but better. They should have just left those two submissions up on the website and let the membership vote them down (which is what happened anyway). But to compare MoveOn’s actions with the statements described in the OP seems rather disingenuous. Even if you think MoveOn was stupid or irresponsible or overly partisan when it allowed those two submissions to appear on its website, the simple fact of MoveOn’s apology and rapid removal of the ads puts them far above the actions of Tom Cole. If Cole ever apologizes for his ridiculous statements, then he might have some claim to be compared with MoveOn, but probably not even then. It’s also a little disingenuous to call the submissions that compared Bush and Hitler “the [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) ads about President Bush” and “ads that compare Bush to Hitler,” as if MoveOn had actualy endorsed those two submissions and placed them on television. Those “ads”: - were submissions to a contest - were never even in the final group from which the _single_ winning ad was selected - were specifically repudiated, apologized for, and removed by MoveOn - never appeared on TV or in any other medium except the internet I thought those two submissions sucked, and that their juxtapositions of Bush and Hitler were silly. But it’s over the top to call them “the [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) ads.” There was one official [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) ad, and that was the children-in-factories ad, which, in my opinion, is no more negative in its style than most political ads nowdays. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/23 "2004-03-05T13:49:08Z")
My bad. I did not realize that [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) had pulled the Hitler ads from its website. I believed, when I posted the above, that they had continued to host the ads, implicitly endorsing them. Certainly no outrage needs to be vented on an organization that responsibly removed the ads as [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) did. So I was quite wrong in what I posted above. Sorry - I should have been paying more attention to the rest of the story! - Rick ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/24 "2004-03-05T14:03:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My bad. I did not realize that [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) had pulled the Hitler ads from its website. I believed, when I posted the above, that they had continued to host the ads, implicitly endorsing them. > > Certainly no outrage needs to be vented on an organization that responsibly removed the ads as [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) did. So I was quite wrong in what I posted above. > > Sorry - I should have been paying more attention to the rest of the story! > > - Rick No big deal. And i shouldn’t have been so quick to impugn your honesty. When determining whether someone is being dishonest or might simply have overlooked something, i think the assumption should rest with the latter until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/25 "2004-03-05T14:03:42Z")
That was a graceful and sincere acknowledgement of error. But this is the Pit. So knock it off! ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/26 "2004-03-05T15:16:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So the “paraphrasing” of Cole’s remarks was just a bit inaccurate. > > \*“What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was” (weakening), Cole said, according to a spokeswoman. > > - Shouldn’t we have then re-elected President Carter? Didn’t that show the Iranian fundies that our resolve was weakening? Support the president, (when he is my guy but fuck him in the ass if he is your guy) ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/27 "2004-03-05T18:10:50Z")
This thread has the potential to turn into a long running series on dishonest campaign tactics—God knows there will be enough to do that. So, this morning I pick up the newspaper and in due course come to the comic page where I find the always amusing _Mallard Filmore_ strip. A strip about Senator Kerry porking an intern with this language (paraphrase)—there have been allegations that Senator Kerry had an affair with an intern, but his liberal supporters say that they will vote for him even if it isn’t true. What the Hell is that? It is hard to count the misrepresentations. It implies that the Senator did indeed have an illicit sexual relationship with an intern. It implies that there is no evidence that it didn’t happen. It implies that “liberals,” who ever they are, think it is just a dandy idea for public officials to screw around with young volunteers. It’s not even funny. It’s a dishonest cheap shot. It is even unworthy of Paul Harvey. Now I am starting to get oblique comments about Mrs. Kerry’s “unconventional life.” We all know what that means. Brace for the President’s deniable supporters to start taking pot shots at Mrs. Kerry as a reflection on her husband. I could tell you some things about Mrs. Eisenhower that would shock you. Let me assure all that if the Democrats and their supporters and running dogs take up this sort of back alley stuff while the candidate appears in soft focus with puppy dogs and motivational music I’ll be screaming about that too. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/28 "2004-03-05T20:46:58Z")
You mean someone reads Mallard Fillmore? Huh. Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/29 "2004-03-05T21:15:28Z")
The basic concept of “a vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism” was driven home to me last night and today. I have a local station to which I listen that is all-talk radio, with all local hosts. No sydicated stuff. The night host last night is a rather right-winged looney. He can be conservative and liberal, but is just usually weird. He was the first I heard use the phrase about terrorism that I voiced above. Today, a strange but middle of the road host voiced the exact phrase to a caller–“a vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism.” That scares me. Hopefully most of the faithful listeners who hear this are a minority and already were voting for Bush. And, I’d be just as upset if I heard the liberal talk guy in the afternoon say something about Bush that was equally as moronic. But, just like most liberals(except the _extreme_ branch), it would never occur to him to use such comparisons. Just as it would never occur to most moderate, thinking 'Pubbies to make such a stupid comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/30 "2004-03-05T21:22:34Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Now I am starting to get oblique comments about Mrs. Kerry’s “unconventional life.” We all know what that means. Brace for the President’s deniable supporters to start taking pot shots at Mrs. Kerry as a reflection on her husband. Mrs. Kerry is fluent in French. Now stop that. You know damn well I mean the language. Don’t make me come up there!Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/31 "2004-03-05T21:34:34Z")
Good enough, as far as that goes, **Sam**. But the real issue is whether or not they will _tolerate_ such statements. Surely, somebody at the Republican meeting Mr. Cole spoke before was sane and moderate enough to know better. For all the caterwauling and bewailing we have heard from the Bushiviks (music to my ears, truth be known…) the fact is the charges they are characterizing as “hateful” are based on facts. Mr. Cole’s repulsive rhetoric is not. It is not our speech that damns us, but our silences. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/32 "2004-03-06T00:11:05Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > And i shouldn’t have been so quick to impugn your honesty. When determining whether someone is being dishonest or might simply have overlooked something, i think the assumption should rest with the latter until proven otherwise. Well and truly spoken, grasshopper. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/33 "2004-03-06T03:17:47Z")
**Mtgman** , the President on the other hand is inarticulate in two languages. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/34 "2004-03-06T03:21:25Z")
Well, if this Cole says so, then I am happy to vote for ‘terrorists’. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/35 "2004-03-06T16:55:16Z")
I can’t imagine a Kerry win being that good for bin Laden. I think bin Laden and his ilk would be much happier with a candidate who favored integrating religious institutions with our federal ones, who was more sympathetic to a religious view of the world and foreign policy, and whose constituency opposed gay rights. Someone who is willing to stir up hornets’ nests in the Islamic world would also sit rather well with bin Laden, who seems to like the idea of holy war. No, a Kerry victory would be a loss for bin Laden and all that he stands for. Luckily for Mr. Kerry, bin Laden can’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/36 "2004-03-06T18:55:18Z")
Not to mention, **Chance** , that Afghanistan doesn’t even have that many electoral votes. No one’s picking it as a “battleground state,” although several have called it a “battleground.” Now, to take a detour back to the OP, why haven’t we heard ANYTHING about this since it happened? ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/37 "2004-03-06T19:10:59Z")
“If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election,” That’s ridiculous. Hell, bin Laden got less votes in the primary than Al Sharpton. Although, I think bin Laden is someone that even Bush could and should beat. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/38 "2004-03-07T04:53:14Z")
If Bush were a man of any integrity whatsoever, he would immediately condemn this sort of “vote for Kerry and bin Laden wins” bullshit rhetoric and work through the Republican party to put a stop to it (and not in a wink-nudge way that allows it to go on while he maintains denyability, either). Of course, I would be less surprised if he stripped naked and did a pole dance live on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/39 "2004-03-07T07:12:37Z")
I hope the [Super Storm](http://www.outdoorshub.com/The_Coming_Global_Superstorm_0671041916.html) gets here soon and ends all of this. People will be blaiming each each other’s political party as they freeze to death but at least it will end eventually. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589/40 "2004-03-07T14:29:46Z")
Doesn’t anyone find it disturbing that Kim Jong Il seems to be [endorsing](http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,238539,00.html) Kerry? [Here too?](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040305/ts_nm/korea_north_kerry_dc_1) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rep-tom-cole-ok-you-are-an-idiot/232589.md?page=3)