# Reparations are never going to happen so why do some democrats come out in favor of them... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186 "2019-02-25T17:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/241 "2019-03-08T19:58:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And he specifies, rightly, that the brutality against African Americans AND Native Americans stands out separately from all other firms if discrimination that occurred in American history. The Chinese in the West would disagree. So would the Mexicans, and their discrimination is ongoing and supported by the current US President. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/242 "2019-03-08T20:57:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Chinese in the West would disagree. > > So would the Mexicans, and their discrimination is ongoing and supported by the current US President. So brave of you to speak for them! Of course, the Chinese Americans and Mexican Americans I’ve spoken to about this generally disagree. Perhaps your uncited anecdotes are different! However, this is irrelevant to the main point, since the whole idea of reparations could and should encompass all governmental and institutional policies that have harmed living Americans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/243 "2019-03-08T21:38:27Z")
I’ll note again that “reparations”, as it’s generally discussed nowadays, is the TNC variety – as he puts it, “the full acceptance of our collective biography and its consequences” and “a national reckoning that would lead to spiritual renewal”. It would be much closer to a sort of “truth and reconciliations committee” than financial handouts based on race, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/244 "2019-03-08T23:43:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So brave of you to speak for them! Of course, the Chinese Americans and Mexican Americans I’ve spoken to about this generally disagree. Perhaps your uncited anecdotes are different! However, this is irrelevant to the main point, since the whole idea of reparations could and should encompass all governmental and institutional policies that have harmed living Americans. Sure and \*my \*black friends all think reparations are a pipe dream. So what? The early Chinese immigrants were worked to death at low wages, the women were put in cages as sex slaves, and their neighborhoods were regularly burned to the ground by racist white men. But your few acquaintances aren’t concerned about that- and who cares? > **[History of Chinese Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans)** > > The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked in the California Gold Rush of the 1850s and the Central Pacific Railroad in the 1860s. They also worked as laborers in Western mines. They suffered racial discrimination at every level of White society. Many Americans were stirred to anger by the "Yellow Peril" rh... Fair enuf. So, first we tax all Americans at 10 times their normal rate, and hand that over to the blacks. Then, we give the nation back to the Natives, and 290Million broke as fuck Americans become homeless and have to try to move to Europe- who wont take us. Do you even realize what you’re proposing? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/245 "2019-03-09T00:22:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure and \*my \*black friends all think reparations are a pipe dream. So what? > > The early Chinese immigrants were worked to death at low wages, the women were put in cages as sex slaves, and their neighborhoods were regularly burned to the ground by racist white men. But your few acquaintances aren’t concerned about that- and who cares? > > [History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans) > > Fair enuf. So, first we tax all Americans at 10 times their normal rate, and hand that over to the blacks. Then, we give the nation back to the Natives, and 290Million broke as fuck Americans become homeless and have to try to move to Europe- who wont take us. > > Do you even realize what you’re proposing? I’m certainly not proposing whatever it is that you’re discussing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/246 "2019-03-09T21:16:32Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > **iiAndyiiii** has repeatedly stated that the goal of reparations should be to put an end to discrimination, example Post #83: Okay, that is quoting him that the goal of reparations should be to put an end to discrimination, I’ll agree, but not “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > [@](#): > > “a truly fair and equal society”, IOW, one where there is no discrimination. No discrimination based on intrinsic factors like race or gender, sure. You can still discriminate against assholes. Other than that, I agree with your paraphrase here, but it is not “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > [@](#): > > Or, post #115, bolding mine again: Once again, this is not an example of someone saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > [@](#): > > Post #120: Nor is this something that could possibly be described as saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > [@](#): > > So enough with the “nobody is saying those things”. Does that mean that you have had enough with trying to claim that anyone is saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”. You have not quoted anyone who said, “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”. If you are backing off your assertion that anyone said “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, then fine. But as long as you stand by your claim that anyone said “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, then it is on you to actually produce someone who has said this. Either quote someone who has actually advocated for what you have claimed they advocated, or admit that no one has, and that “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, is simply your imagination of what you _think_ someone has advocated for. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/247 "2019-03-10T01:57:02Z")
In doing some troll purging, this thread got caught up in the action. I’ve restored it because it had good discussion. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/248 "2019-03-10T09:11:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Okay, that is quoting him that the goal of reparations should be to put an end to discrimination, I’ll agree, but not “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > > No discrimination based on intrinsic factors like race or gender, sure. You can still discriminate against assholes. Other than that, I agree with your paraphrase here, but it is not “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > > Once again, this is not an example of someone saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > > Nor is this something that could possibly be described as saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race” > Does that mean that you have had enough with trying to claim that anyone is saying “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”. > > You have not quoted anyone who said, “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”. > > If you are backing off your assertion that anyone said “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, then fine. But as long as you stand by your claim that anyone said “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, then it is on you to actually produce someone who has said this. > > Either quote someone who has actually advocated for what you have claimed they advocated, or admit that no one has, and that “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, is simply your imagination of what you _think_ someone has advocated for. Wow, you really don’t like being shown to be wrong, do you? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/249 "2019-03-10T15:22:41Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Wow, you really don’t like being shown to be wrong, do you? I have no problem with it. The problem is is that you have not backed up your statement whatsoever. I thought that maybe I had missed a poster actually say what it was that you had claimed, and was perfectly willing to be shown a post that I had missed that backed what you said. You posted some random quotes from some posters who happened to mention reparations, and somehow thought that that would support your argument, but when you actually look at what you quoted, it is obvious to see that you have completely failed to do so. Now, I will grant that you have quoted people talking about reparations in such a way that, should you choose to be very “creative” in their interpretation, with the proper motivated reasoning, _could_ be stretched to be something similar to what you have claimed, and if you want to say that you consider those quotes to be equivalent to “End discrimination by discriminating in favour of one group at the expense of all others on the basis of race”, then I will take you at your word that you have sincerely come to that extremely flawed conclusion, but I will still not agree with your conclusion, as it is demonstrably wrong, and will consider any other offerings you have to this discussion to be similarly flawed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/250 "2019-03-10T16:00:22Z")
Nobody denies the US government has done incredibly destructive things. It still does them now. If someone wants to pass reparations for still living victims of mass incarceration for nonviolence, the wars in Yemen, Syria, Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan, asset forfeiture, eminent domain, police brutality, ICE, etc. let’s do that. First let’s turn off the policies though. Why are the people who are barely effected by the wrongs of past generations prioritized over real deal indisputable victims? This is bizarre to me. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/251 "2019-03-10T16:52:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If there has been a wrongful act against an individual, the victims should pursue that in court. This is the only form of reparation that can be carried out legitimately. Slavery was legal. We have a constitutional prohibition against ex poste facto laws. On what grounds would you sue? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/252 "2019-03-10T16:55:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A wrongful act against an individual is also a wrongful act against that individual’s heirs. > > And **DrDeth** , surely the simple criterion for who gets reparations is that it goes to descendants of slaves. How much do you pay someone for raping them, selling their children, beating them, lynching then, denying them basic human rights for centuries? What’s the price tag on that? We have never paid reparations to heirs. The reparations to interned Japanese were not paid to their heirs. They had to be alive to collect. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/253 "2019-03-10T16:56:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Slavery was legal. We have a constitutional prohibition against ex poste facto laws. On what grounds would you sue? People have sued (and collected) the banks for redlining- which is one reason why reparations are wrong. People have sued (and collected) for racial discrimination in the workplace, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/254 "2019-03-10T17:12:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Systematic race-based oppression in America didn’t end when slavery did. > > Arguably, it never ended at all. It’s pretty clearly not as bad as it once was. Its arguably less race based and more socio-economic these days. What racist federal policy do we have today? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/255 "2019-03-10T17:14:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most of this is entirely irrelevant to what I’ve been saying, since I haven’t been advocating for reparations for slavery. So what concrete harm are you advancing as the basis for reparations? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/256 "2019-03-10T17:15:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So what concrete harm are you advancing as the basis for reparations? Feel free to read the thread, or any of the many other threads about reparations on which I’ve contributed, to find out. I’ve spoken about it in great detail. Or read the essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates – I’ve generally been following his lead. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/257 "2019-03-10T17:22:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Feel free to read the thread, or any of the many other threads about reparations on which I’ve contributed, to find out. I’ve spoken about it in great detail. > > Or read the essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates – I’ve generally been following his lead. I did, and there is nothing that support your conclusions. So, spell it out. I mean if its redlining- many blacks sued and collected. So, should we give cash to the other blacks who either didnt sue or were not harmed? There was a legal remedy already. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/258 "2019-03-10T17:27:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I did, and there is nothing that support your conclusions. You’ve generally been ignoring what I’ve been writing, and responding to unrelated arguments (sometimes called “straw-manning”), so I’m afraid I won’t take your word for it. > [@](#): > > So, spell it out. > > I mean if its redlining- many blacks sued and collected. So, should we give cash to the other blacks who either didnt sue or were not harmed? There was a legal remedy already. I’m unaware of any successful lawsuit against the US government for redlining. I’ve explained why I don’t think lawsuits are a likely solution, mainly since it puts the onus on the victims, rather than the responsible party (i.e. the US government). Especially when so many of the victims likely have very good reason to distrust the justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/259 "2019-03-10T17:29:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Catholics have a long history of being discriminated against in this country, as do Irish people, Italians, Asians, and Jews. Should each of these groups get reparations too? None of these groups had anything close to what your advocating and yet they all have been integrated into society and in most cases are doing so well AA advocates say that in order to make things fair these groups must be discriminated against. The way this happened was that the discrimination stopped and these groups found their own level with varying degrees of success. This process for black americans has been ongoing for 55 years. Hispanics too. I’m never quite sure how they fit into the AA argument on a principled basis. The argument mostly seems to be that they’re not doing as well as others so it MUST be racism and therefore AA for them is justified. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/260 "2019-03-10T17:30:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … > I’m unaware of any successful lawsuit against the US government for redlining. … They sued the \*banks, \*not the government. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186.md?page=14)