# Reparations are never going to happen so why do some democrats come out in favor of them... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186 "2019-02-25T17:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/41 "2019-02-26T20:41:17Z")
Discussions about reparations are only partly about finances. The ultimate goal is about morality and community – to ensure, as much as possible, that all Americans believe that they have a stake in society, and that society has a stake in them. 50% of black Americans report that they, personally, have been mistreated by law enforcement, as opposed to 3% (IIRC) of white Americans (I’ve cited this poll many times – I can find it again if anyone would like). Due to their own experiences, and the experiences of their parents and grandparents, it’s my understanding that a very significant portion of African Americans very reasonably believe they live in a white supremacist society, in which they don’t have a reasonable chance to succeed. A big part of changing this very reasonable perception would be (from the point of view of proponents of considering reparations and similar policies) a very great gesture on the part of society as a whole – I don’t think such a gesture would be possible by any institution other than the US federal government. Not just to the point of ensuring that they are treated equally by any and all institutions in society (though that is obviously necessary), but demonstrating that society as a whole recognizes the misdeeds perpetrated against them and is making some significant attempt to make up for those misdeeds. IMO and in my understanding, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/42 "2019-02-26T22:03:29Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I think reparations would go a long way in healing some of the issues that have festered, as the US government says we did wrong and we are big enough to admit that. And I think that they would be just about the most effective recruiting tool for the KKK and similar groups that I can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/43 "2019-02-26T22:21:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And I think that they would be just about the most effective recruiting tool for the KKK and similar groups that I can imagine. Likely the best “tool” since the Civil Rights movement, I would expect. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/44 "2019-02-26T22:27:06Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Politicians will pay lip service to reparations but never propose a plan. That way in the primary they can pretend that it means giving out money and court those votes and then in the general pretend that they meant some general program of uplift. > > Payments to the Japanese who were interned totaled 1.3 billion. To do something similar for black Americans would cost at least 700 billion. Polling in 2014 showed that the public was against it by 68-15, and that was before the costs were specified. Reparations talk is just vaporware. We know who the incarcerated Japanese were. For the most part, we don’t know with certainty who had slaves as ancestors, and many, many people who think they are 100% white, Native American, etc. have some African-slave ancestry and don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/45 "2019-02-26T22:35:39Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And I think that they would be just about the most effective recruiting tool for the KKK and similar groups that I can imagine. I’m sure they said the same thing about civil rights etc etc ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/46 "2019-02-26T22:40:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Likely the best “tool” since the Civil Rights movement, I would expect. There would be massive, _massive_ resistance to the idea of “white people being forced to pay money to black people because of something out ancestors did to their ancestors.” If it passed, I would fully expect widespread violence. I’m mostly liberal, but I sure as hell wouldn’t be happy about someone shoving their hands into my pocket for that. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/47 "2019-02-26T22:42:39Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > There would be massive, _massive_ resistance to the idea of “white people being forced to pay money to black people because of something out ancestors did to their ancestors.” If it passed, I would fully expect widespread violence. I’m mostly liberal, but I sure as hell wouldn’t be happy about someone shoving their hands into my pocket for that. It wouldn’t be ‘White people’ It would be the US government, as an institution, which failed to live up the ideals it was supposed to uphold for all people within its jurisdiction making redress, and that’s how I expect it would be marketed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/48 "2019-02-26T22:44:26Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > There would be massive, _massive_ resistance to the idea of “white people being forced to pay money to black people because of something out ancestors did to their ancestors.” If it passed, I would fully expect widespread violence. I’m mostly liberal, but I sure as hell wouldn’t be happy about someone shoving their hands into my pocket for that. What about what Ta-Nehisi Coates (and I) have advocated – Congress formally investigating the details of how various institutional discriminatory policies and practices have financially harmed living Americans of color? Would that make you angry, and do you think that would lead to “widespread violence”? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/49 "2019-02-26T23:03:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What about what Ta-Nehisi Coates (and I) have advocated – Congress formally investigating the details of how various institutional discriminatory policies and practices have financially harmed living Americans of color? Would that make you angry, and do you think that would lead to “widespread violence”? Let’s say this study is conducted and we get perfect information of whatever kind you want. Then what? Can you outline out in broad strokes how you get from there (the study being done) to whatever end point you want to see happen? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/50 "2019-02-26T23:16:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Let’s say this study is conducted and we get perfect information of whatever kind you want. Then what? Can you outline out in broad strokes how you get from there (the study being done) to whatever end point you want to see happen? Personally, and off the top of my head, I’d advocate for a controlled, long-term experiment – take a single small town or community of African Americans, give those that have been financially impacted by the policies studied reparations based on the level of harm, and study that community for the next 10 years or so to see what the impact is. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/51 "2019-02-26T23:49:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > …What? There are probably many swing or light-blue voters who would find a platform of reparations-for-black-people to be objectionable. was there opposition to Japanese-Americans getting reparations? ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/52 "2019-02-26T23:51:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I find them _highly_ objectionable. I mean, sure, we should have given something to the slaves. But simply being black? And how do we define being black? Note that in the USA it’s self-identification. Reparations are racist as hell. And stupid. > > Should a person who recently emigrated from Liberia get the reparations? How about someone who just claims to be black but has blue eyes, fair skin and blond hair? > > The idea is unbelievably foolish. remember the promise of “forty acres and a mule” for slaves? How did that pan out? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/53 "2019-02-26T23:59:42Z")
[Published today by fivethirtyeight.com](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-think-about-reparations-and-other-race-related-questions/) > [@What Americans Think About Reparations And Other Race-Related Questions](#): > > **Reparations** : A [July 2018 survey](https://www.dataforprogress.org/polling-the-left-agenda) from the left-leaning Data for Progress found that 26 percent of Americans supported some kind of compensation or cash benefits for the descendants of slaves… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/54 "2019-02-27T00:58:24Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > remember the promise of “forty acres and a mule” for slaves? How did that pan out? That was General William T Sherman who issued Special Field Orders to give some freed slaves following his army some land (no mules were mentioned). He ended up settling 40,000 freedpeople on 435,000 acres in the Sea Islands. However, after pardons were issued the old landowners fought those claims, and in the end the freedmen only retained control over 1,565 titles amounting to 63,000 acres. 1900 were resettled nearby, given land at very low rates. Later, based upon this Congress passed the Southern Homestead Act which opened about 46 Million acres for Freed homesteaders, about 1000 took advantage of this. No one ever promised all freed slaves “forty acres and a mule”. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/55 "2019-02-27T01:02:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Personally, and off the top of my head, I’d advocate for a controlled, long-term experiment – take a single small town or community of African Americans, give those that have been financially impacted by the policies studied reparations based on the level of harm, and study that community for the next 10 years or so to see what the impact is. Just suggesting but what about having reparations paid out over the course of several decades in the form of income tax credits and refunds? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/56 "2019-02-27T01:07:05Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Just suggesting but what about having reparations paid out over the course of several decades in the form of income tax credits and refunds? Sounds like a reasonable proposal to at least discuss. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/57 "2019-02-27T01:08:35Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Just suggesting but what about having reparations paid out over the course of several decades in the form of income tax credits and refunds? To whom? And how much? How about the Freedmen who got the 40 acres? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/58 "2019-02-27T01:24:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > To whom? And how much? How about the Freedmen who got the 40 acres? The first two are good questions that would be reasonable to explore. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/59 "2019-02-27T02:25:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The first two are good questions that would be reasonable to explore. Why not the third? They already got their reparations. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186/60 "2019-02-27T02:38:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why not the third? They already got their reparations. Are you talking about the promised, but ultimately not delivered, 40 acres and a mule? > **[Forty acres and a mule](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty_acres_and_a_mule)** > > Forty acres and a mule was part of Special Field Orders No. 15, a wartime order proclaimed by Union General William Tecumseh Sherman on January 16, 1865, during the American Civil War, to allot land to some freed families, in plots of land no larger than 40 acres (16 ha). Sherman later ordered the army to lend mules for the agrarian reform effort. The field orders followed a series of conversations between Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton and Radical Republican abolitionists Charles Sumner and... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-are-never-going-to-happen-so-why-do-some-democrats-come-out-in-favor-of-them/830186.md?page=4)