# Reparations for Jim Crow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252 "2008-11-24T15:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/141 "2008-11-26T22:38:30Z")
My final final words, though they’re not mine but those of others. Some are on arguments against reparations for _slavery_ as opposed to Jim Crow, but I’ve quoted excerpts applicable to both. From[Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery): > [@](#): > > The most effective legal argument against reparations for slavery from a legal (as opposed to a moral standpoint) is that the statute of limitations for filing lawsuits has long since passed. Thus, courts are prohibited from granting relief. While Jim Crow laws are a century more recent than slavery, it is still true that except in murder and certain violent crimes (for which surviving perpetrators can and are still prosecuted), limitations has expired. From [David Horowitz- 10 Arguments Against Reparations for Slavery](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=23D875B0-65A3-44A3-A27B-14831CCB4107), I’ve quoted excerpts from those reasons that also applicable imo to Jim Crow. Any emphasis is mine. > [@](#): > > IV. America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery > > {snip}The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 **and then after 1960**. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?{/snip} > > V: The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury > > {snip}The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. **But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families**. {/snip} > > VI. The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination > > {snip}The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. {/snip} > > VII. The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community. > > {snip}The renewed sense of grievance – which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create – is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors **fifty** or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. {/snip} > > VIII. Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid > > Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a “healing,” what will? > > X. The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom > > {snip)For all America’s faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. {/snip} > {snip}America’s African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive – a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. {/snip} ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/142 "2008-11-26T22:53:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Darlin’, we both have some fishy breath. I’ll admit I haven’t been a master debater but you should admit the same. _Sweetie Pie_, find a single instance of me using a red herring in my argumentation and maybe I will agree with this. > [@](#): > > How is that _ever_ a ludicrous argument? Because it doesn’t go to matter of whether reparations are owed. It’s a question of logistics that doesn’t go to the validity of a case. I’ve asked this question a million times, but I’ll ask it again: If you owe someone, does saying you’re broke ever get you out of your debt? Unless you formally declare bankruptcy, no, it doesn’t. The OP is the _only_ one talking about a million dollars. Let’s say the court system decided that $1000 was the maximum compensation for civil rights violations. Does this mean you’re all for reparations now? Of course not, based on the rest of your argumentation. People keep pointing this out to you but you won’t concede it for some strange reason. > [@](#): > > I don’t think anybody would disagree that the government paying for everybody’s health insurance premiums would be a _wonderful_ idea. People need healthcare, too many people don’t have access to it because they’re uninsured or underinsured, and then the excess of doctor to patient ratios could be improved by the government building state-of-the-art teaching hospitals all over the country and expanding the ones that are there and training anyone who can pass the entrance exams and has the right GPA to be doctors, nurses, and other healthcare professionals. You’ll never have to worry about not being able to afford to get preventative or real treatment and there will never be a bill. This would be absolutely great, wouldn’t it? You’re talking services that go above and beyond the call of government. I’m talking about basic services of government. Providing protection. Education. Access to the voting booth. Ensuring a fair trial by jury. You know, the things we take for granted. If we can’t hold the government responsible for these basic services, then what’s the point of calling this a free society? The government could dick us all over and we wouldn’t have any recourse. That’s not right, man. > [@](#): > > But “It’s too EXPENSIVE!!”. We can’t do it. It would be wonderful if the government would buy every veteran and every homeless person a house, paid for, but again- “It’s too EXPENSIVE!!”. Because we’ve already issued reparations to people…and because the Holocaust provides us an additional example…I refuse to buy into the notion that Jim Crow reparations are pie-in-the-sky. No one is demanding anything more extraordinary than what’s already happening now. You weaken your argument substantially by leaning on such rhetoric. > [@](#): > > If they can document financial harm, that’s another thing entirely. Just having survived Jim Crow is not the same thing. We might agree on this. However, I’m willing to extend the harm to include pain and suffering. Someone falsely imprisoned by Sheriff Jim Crow might not have lost any money in the process, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t suffer. > [@](#): > > The degree of harm is a different matter. So I take it that you don’t agree with the Japanese reparations. Everyone got the same amount, from the broke homeless guy to the wealthy businessman to the little kid who thought they were at summer camp. > [@](#): > > The Japanese are not comparable to blacks under Jim Crow. I don’t agree that’s a precedent. Or maybe you do agree with Japanese reparations. I see… > [@](#): > > How is this comparable to blacks under Jim Crow? **Sampiro** , you already admitted the Jim Crow was horrible. Do you want me to cite your own words? Are you now denying this. Or are you trying to create some gradient in which the Japanese internment was worse than 90 years of legalized oppression, all in a weak effort to justify why the Japanese deserve compensation but black people don’t? Is it fairer to give the descendants of interned Japanese Americans compensation than it is to give someone who was intimidated by their local sheriff each and every voting day? Why is someone who was interned for two years as a little kid entitled to $20,000, but a person who was forced to go to delipidated schools for 12 years entitled to NOTHING? I’m not arguing that every black person who lived under Jim Crow was hiding under their bed at night, but come on, dude. Either Jim Crow was horrible or it wasn’t. Either people were harmed or they weren’t. > [@](#): > > I don’t mean this as an ad hom but as a statement of relevant fact: I think you have a seriously simplistic view of both of those historical eras. Answer me this, **Sampiro**. Why didn’t black Americans attempt to get reparations after slavery and Jim Crow? Was it because they were lazy and shiftless? Were they distracted by their enormous wealth and leisure time? Surely there must be a good reason why they didn’t go after reparations when the iron was hot. And surely this reason would explain why it’s unfair to apply an arbitrary statute of limitations, right? > [@](#): > > Is there a particular type of wood you prefer for your patibulum or do you find one kind works the pecs better and another trikes? I don’t understand this. I’m not as clever as you, apparently. > [@](#): > > My final words on the subject (on which neither of us have exactly represented our viewpoint well): Speak for yourself, bub. I’ve been around this thorny mulberry bush multiple times, and I’m prepared to do it again. The question is, are you? > [@](#): > > By your own admission, reparations do not atone for or change the past. You’re catching on. > [@](#): > > By your own admission, they are best described as punitive measures. No, I wouldn’t say that. If I was running things, they would be compensatory, first and foremost. But I wouldn’t be against punitive measures on principal. I have to pay a fine when I break the law. Why shouldn’t the government? > [@](#): > > Punitive = Punishment > > 99+% of the people who imposed Jim Crow Laws are dead, the other \<1% dying. You can’t punish them. The government that is in place now is comprised 100% of different people than then. The burden of payments would fall on taxpayers who had nothing to do with the actions- you’re punishing people today for something that their grandfathers may or may not have done. Really, I don’t understand how a smart guy like you cannot see how ridiculous this argument is. Do you not understand how institutions work at all? Do you not see why you should be very much against Japanese and Holocaust reparations, as well as all “after the fact” government pay-outs? You should be against the whole tax system. Your head must be doing the Exorcist spin right now. Every time someone brings charges against the federal government and they win a settlement, _you_ are paying it. Even though _you_ had nothing to do with it. Does that keep you up at night? If not, then Jim Crow reparations won’t keep you up at night either. > [@](#): > > The affirmative action programs and social programs that you dismiss completely as worthless… Stop with the lying. If you can’t talk to me reasonably, don’t at all. > [@](#): > > …were installed to help make real, not symbolic, atonement for the past. Millions of people have benefitted from them. THOSE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE WHO SUFFERED UNDER JIM CROW WERE ELIGIBLE TO BENEFIT FROM THEM. Guess what? So do you. So do the people in your family. So do the Hispanic people you see on the street, and the Asians and the Native Americans. So are the racists that enforced Jm Crow. And also guess what? A black person can actually live in this society without directly benefiting from welfare or Affirmative Action. And that doesn’t mean anything about the discrimination they’ve faced in life! My goodness, I don’t know why you folks can’t see the glaring hole in this logic! > [@](#): > > As mentioned above with the Emmett Till case- which I do not believe you’ve responded to- who was responsible for his murder? Show a tangible causal link between ANY BRANCH OF THE FEDERAL OR STATE GOVERNMENT and his murder. Prove liability. If Till’s family could show that the town of Money (or the county) dropped the ball in enacting justice for his murder, do you think they would be justified in bringing civil charges against this institution? Why or why not? > [@](#): > > The government’s coffers are not just overextended but grossly overextended. The government is not a corporation- it does not work at a profit and all monies it controls are derived from the people. The people of today have NO LEGAL LIABILITY to those who suffered under Jim Crow, PERIOD. You can post this again and again and it doesn’t make it so, **Sampiro**. Legal precedence doesn’t support this at all. > [@](#): > > I descend from people who had their farms destroyed and the heads of their family killed in the Civil War- these were women and children who couldn’t even vote, let alone vote secession, and they got no reparations. The Cherokee Indians were forced from the Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, etc., strictly so the whites could seize their land and gold fields and IN CLEAR VIOLATION OF A DIRECT RULING FROM THE SCOTUS, they have reservations but no reparations as far as the gold taken from Georgia or the land redistributed. For that matter my ancestors moved onto land forcibly seized from Creek Indians as ‘reparations’ for damage caused by DIFFERENT CREEK INDIANS- those Indians got no reparations. Irish, Jews, Italians, Chinese, immigrants of every shade and dialect and creed came here by the millions and battled prejudice and unfair laws, they got no reparations. What makes Jim Crow survivors so special? What makes Japanese and Holocaust reparations so special, **Sampiro**? Isn’t that the question you should be asking? > [@](#): > > I think the most ridiculous comment made- I can’t remember who said it- was $62 Billion is chump change to the Federal government. Utter rubbish- $62 billion is enough to buy every house in Pittsburgh, or Detroit, or D.C.. At only 1% interest the interest on that money is enough to pay the full tuition and books for more than 100,000 students per year FOR THE REST OF TIME. Don’t let the overuse of the word billion fool you, it’ ain’t chump change, not even if the chump in question is Warren Buffet (who isn’t worth that much). Why don’t you tell that to the federal government then? They’re handing out billion dollar bills like they’re toliet paper. As long as that happens, you will find people wondering when their check is going to come in. That’s not greed. That’s human nature. > [@](#): > > Anyway, there’s not going to be consensus here, so have a happy Thanksgiving and the same to your family. I mean that sincerely. > > [terrorist fist bump proffered] We don’t debate so that there will be a consensus. We debate so that people will see both sides of an argument. This particular topic is significant enough that I don’t think it’s useful to _anyone_ for only one side to be represented and unchallenged. We don’t learn and grow that way. I hope you also have a nice holiday. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/143 "2008-11-26T23:16:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The degree of harm is a different matter. > > The Japanese are not comparable to blacks under Jim Crow. I don’t agree that’s a precedent. Before I address the rest of what you wrote, I need to ask you one thing. Do you think 3 years of internment caused more harm to Japanese Americans than nearly 100 years worth of Jim Crow did to African Americans? I’m not trying to play the one upman persecution game, honestly. But you’re saying the degree of harm is completely different. Since you’re not treating reparations for the interned Japanese as an absurdity of theatrical proportions (as I suggest you have with JC), I can only assume you think the internment was substantially worse. What is the basis for this assertion? Got stats? Maybe cites? Anyway, as far as I know, blacks were not forcibly received from their homes by troops. Since no one said the internment and Jim Crow were _exactly_ the same things, this doesn’t show much. The wrongful treatment of people with respect to their civil rights formed the basis for reparations to the interned. The involvement of barbed wired and gun toting soldiers flowed from the systematic violation of liberities on the basis of ethnicity. If someone oppressed under JC can show that the government did the same thing to them, with or without barbed wire, then I say more power to them. > [@](#): > > —these were completely innocent people… As opposed to all them black folks who weren’t? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/144 "2008-11-26T23:31:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Do you think 3 years of internment caused more harm to Japanese Americans than nearly 100 years worth of Jim Crow did to African Americans? I keep saying I’m out, but since that was addressed directly to me I’ll answer it: No. I don’t think the 3 years of internment of the Japanese was worse than, or better than, blacks under Jim Crow. I think it is incomparable. The internment of the Japanese occurred due to an Executive Order ([9066](http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=74&page=transcript)to be precise) and as such was fully, wholly, and actively the fault of the presidency. FDR, with cooperation of the Secretary of War and many other appointed and elected officials, literally made 120,000 men, women, and children- from infants to centenarians, prisoners of war in spite of the fact that many were native born U.S. citizens. They were completely deprived of their rights as citizens or legal aliens, they were subjected to arbitrary loyalty tests, treated differently even from the few Germans, Italians, and other nationalities rounded up by the same order (“When we are dealing with the Caucasian race we have methods that will test the loyalty of them. But when we deal with the Japanese, we are on an entirely different field.” Earl Warren) and imprisoned without proper cause or the right to redress (an exception being that young men could volunteer to fight in the armed forces). This has been attributed to wartime paranoia, some have even called it justified since there were indeed Japanese Americans whose loyalty was to Japan and who acted as spies (though very few and most of those were under surveillance). However, even at the time 9066 was viewed as disgraceful by many white loyal patriotic Americans. J. Edgar Hoover- not exactly a compassionate man or accepting of all races as equal- denounced it in the press as unnecessary and wrong. After her husband’s death Eleanor Roosevelt herself denounced it and said she had pleaded with Franklin to rescind it. Was Jim Crow more harmful to blacks than unlawful imprisonment was to the Japanese? That’s another debate and it’s a moot point anyway. Executive Order 9066 was issued, by definition, from the Oval Office, which makes it incomparable in terms of legal Federal culpability. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/145 "2008-11-26T23:41:37Z")
Japanese internment is a little easier to put your finger on. Jim Crow is a bit more like trying to put your finger on the harm caused to women & gays over the last 100,000 years. You know what else is easy to put a finger on? 70% of blacks voted to take away my right to be married. Gimme $1,000,000. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/146 "2008-11-26T23:58:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Japanese internment is a little easier to put your finger on. > > Jim Crow is a bit more like trying to put your finger on the harm caused to women & gays over the last 100,000 years. > > You know what else is easy to put a finger on? 70% of blacks voted to take away my right to be married. Gimme $1,000,000. 70% of 6% of the California Voting Population. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/147 "2008-11-27T00:11:18Z")
**Sampiro** , do you expect to be taken seriously quoting David Horowitz? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/148 "2008-11-27T00:14:49Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > 70% of 6% of the California Voting Population. Right, but I need my $1,000,000. Who should pay? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/149 "2008-11-27T00:16:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Right, but I need my $1,000,000. Who should pay? If you were connected to the right bank, you could get billions. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/150 "2008-11-27T00:25:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Stop with the lying. Back off on this accusation in Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/151 "2008-11-27T00:28:03Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > **Sampiro** , do you expect to be taken seriously quoting David Horowitz? The text is important, not the speaker. Let’s not have prejudice. [QUOTE=EasyPhil] 70% of 6% of the California Voting Population. [/QUOTE] Closer to 10% by most counts, and in either case enough to push it over the edge and\* BY FAR \*the largest percentage of any ethnicity to vote against the measure, and larger still in Arkansas. I attribute it to the influence of the churches, some of the larger of which accepted a small fortune in donations from the Mormons who were lobbying against it and spent tens of millions of dollars to get their message across and gain allies (thus adding new meaning to “baaa baaa black sheep” unfortunately). The role of Mormons and of blacks who voted against it and others who have felt the sting of inequality and prejudice for beliefs or ways of life and now would deny to others rights that do not in any way shape or form detract from their own life and liberties— it’s just sickening to me. But, that’s another debate thread (several in fact). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/152 "2008-11-27T00:48:15Z")
> [@ledvakron](#): > > Right, but I need my $1,000,000. Who should pay? So are you for or against reparations? I need to know before I write you a check. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/153 "2008-11-27T00:49:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Back off on this accusation in Great Debates. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/154 "2008-11-27T01:01:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > So are you for or against reparations? I need to know before I write you a check. So before I write you (or more correctly, a victim of Jim Crow) a check, I get to choose if I’m for or against reparations? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/155 "2008-11-27T01:11:59Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So before I write you (or more correctly, a victim of Jim Crow) a check, I get to choose if I’m for or against reparations? I don’t want to give you money if you think reparations are a bad idea. That would make me an enabler of your hypocricy. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/156 "2008-11-27T01:17:54Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t want to give you money if you think reparations are a bad idea. That would make me an enabler of your hypocricy. That would mean you’re basing your reparation pay-out based on something other than its actual merits, which would mean I, the beneficiary, am meaningless in your game of reparations. That would be really patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/157 "2008-11-27T01:21:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Closer to 10% by most counts, and in either case enough to push it over the edge and\* BY FAR \*the largest percentage of any ethnicity to vote against the measure, and larger still in Arkansas. I attribute it to the influence of the churches, some of the larger of which accepted a small fortune in donations from the Mormons who were lobbying against it and spent tens of millions of dollars to get their message across and gain allies (thus adding new meaning to “baaa baaa black sheep” unfortunately). The role of Mormons and of blacks who voted against it and others who have felt the sting of inequality and prejudice for beliefs or ways of life and now would deny to others rights that do not in any way shape or form detract from their own life and liberties— it’s just sickening to me. But, that’s another debate thread (several in fact). The problem here is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Here’s a census link so that you can see what the percentage is: [http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?\_event=Search&\_lang=en&\_sse=on&geo\_id=04000US06&\_state=04000US06](http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=Search&_lang=en&_sse=on&geo_id=04000US06&_state=04000US06) Please post yours that asserts that it’s more like 10%. Here’s a link to where someone has actually done the math and has exposed the myth of Prop 8 that your holding onto so tightly. [http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/158 "2008-11-27T01:30:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That would mean you’re basing your reparation pay-out based on something other than its actual merits, which would mean I, the beneficiary, am meaningless in your game of reparations. That would be really patronizing. As patronizing as telling claimants they don’t deserve any money because it won’t fix anything and they’ll just spend it on big-screen TVs and rims. If you don’t support reparations, you wouldn’t be signing your name to a class-action lawsuit so you could receive compensation. If you support reparations only when they would benefit you, then you’re a hypocrite. Why wouldn’t I have a problem with a hypocrite asking me for money? You assume I have a problem with you seeking reparations. I have a problem with you only going after black people (how much of the population do they represent? does doing so even make rational sense?), but there’s nothing unreasonable about gay people fighting injustice by taking their government to court. I expect we’ll see some interesting court cases down the line. I can’t wait for the awaiting victories. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/159 "2008-11-27T01:44:07Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Japanese internment is a little easier to put your finger on. > > Jim Crow is a bit more like trying to put your finger on the harm caused to women & gays over the last 100,000 years. > > You know what else is easy to put a finger on? 70% of blacks voted to take away my right to be married. Gimme $1,000,000. If it’s any consolation, you can still catch a cab faster than all of those imaginary blacks that “passed” Prop 8. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252/160 "2008-11-27T01:46:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > As patronizing as telling claimants they don’t deserve any money because it won’t fix anything and they’ll just spend it on big-screen TVs and rims. I didn’t say they don’t deserve something. What I said is giving people lump sum payments doesn’t accomplish what you think it does, and may do more harm we’ll have to deal with further down the road. You’re trying to paint me with a brush that is really pissing me off. You said “rims.” I said TVs. Which one of us is making a racist assumption? > [@](#): > > If you don’t support reparations, you wouldn’t be signing your name to a class-action lawsuit so you could receive compensation. If you support reparations only when they would benefit you, then you’re a hypocrite. Why wouldn’t I have a problem with a hypocrite asking me for money? No, I want you to tell me what part of 70% of 6% is going to give me my one million dollars, and I want you to justify it. You are guilty. That is established. I want you to tell me how and why you should, and are going to pay. > [@](#): > > You assume I have a problem with you seeking reparations. I have a problem with you only going after black people (how much of the population do they represent? does doing so even make rational sense?), but there’s nothing unreasonable about gay people fighting injustice by taking their government to court. I expect we’ll see some interesting court cases down the line. I can’t wait for the awaiting victories. No, we won’t. That’s like women suing for being property for the last 100,000-1,000,000 or more years. Ain’t gonna happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-for-jim-crow/474252.md?page=9)