# Reparations Revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969 "2014-02-22T20:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/201 "2014-03-13T18:56:56Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > **Cloth** , take a look in the mirror and at your posting history. I rather suspect that do consider reparations for slavery and reparations for slave-holders having their property taken by the gummint to be equal. You still have the cake. But per your request, 'et’s take a look at a typical Clothahump posting. Hey, my first post in this thread will do for an example, since it has followed the typical path of things. 1. I post something that either a) sails right over the heads of the libs in here (as in this case) or b) annoys the hell out of them because they can’t refute it. 2. I get responses like yours, which show clearly that what I posted sailed over your head, but that doesn’t stop you from personally attacking me. 3. The other libs pile on, because page 1 of the liberal handbook says that if you can’t refute them, simply yell louder and don’t forget to attack them personally. Now…I will request this from you. Go back and read my first response again. Read it several times until it sinks into your head that my post points out the arrogant stupidity of the OP’s statement and mocks it. Then you might ponder how you could have been so wrong, so many times. Then you might try apologizing to me, although I ain’t gonna hold my breath waiting for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/202 "2014-03-13T19:23:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Let’s say that you cite was appropriate. If your premise is that cutting programs for the poor is proof of Blacks being shortchanged, how do explain the fact that there are many more poor White people affected by those cuts? The short answer is that most white people look at the U.S government as a negative and meddling force in the Linnaeus-like social order of things. White people will throw each other under the bus if it means that more blacks will suffer. For example, look at drug screening for welfare recipients. It’s just a way to demean, degrade, and denigrate the poor and it’s simply the contemporary equivalent of a medieval pillory. Another example: last year during the government shutdown, the State of Arizona halted welfare payments and used the savings to keep the Grand Canyon open. You see what mean with the two examples? Who benefits more or loses out more? I think whites in power make these calculations subconsciously everyday because, for better or worse, whites do not look at black people . . . as well . … people but as [animals](http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/barbara2.asp). [QUOTE=Chief Pedant] Not to mention practically untenable to hold all naughty peoples culpable for their crimes. (At least, what we Westerners have now decided in modern society are moral crimes.) Half of africa would be executed along with half of the rest of the world. But until Honesty hobbles back to defend this incredibly stupid idea, I guess I’m outta here too. I can’t remember a GD where not a single poster agreed with the OP. Maybe that’s why he bailed. [/QUOTE] LOL, sorry, I don’t post every day. The idea is inspired, in minor part, by the _Bell Curve_ of which I am sure you’re very familiar with. In the penultimate chapter of the book, the authors subscribe to the view that blacks are violent, not smart, and in order to preserve the safety of the smarter, overlord white class, welfare should expanded in order to keep them pacified. I don’t agree with the reasoning but I do agree with the ultimate outcome. The reparation program allows blacks to move away from the United States on the taxpayer’s dime. It’s because it was on the taxpayer’s dime that we were brought here, enslaved, and mistreated for 400 years. The U.S government has ample assets for a reparation program. The reparation program will free you from having to complain about lower SAT scores for blacks because, guess what? - there would no blacks in the U.S to complain about. You won’t have to worry about black crime, either, since we’ll be gone. You won’t have to worry about Affirmative Action or any those programs you are eager to rail against. Never fear, after we leave, I am sure white people will be depressed for a bit then start it all over again by on the picking on the Asians, the Jews, the Italians, and whomever is brown-eyed. I believe white people have a lot to learn about loving themselves before they’ll be able to look at black people like they would their own brother or sister. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/203 "2014-03-13T20:38:29Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > The short answer is that most white people look at the U.S government as a negative and meddling force in the Linnaeus-like social order of things. White people will throw each other under the bus if it means that more blacks will suffer. For example, look at drug screening for welfare recipients. It’s just a way to demean, degrade, and denigrate the poor and it’s simply the contemporary equivalent of a medieval pillory. Another example: last year during the government shutdown, the State of Arizona halted welfare payments and used the savings to keep the Grand Canyon open. You see what mean with the two examples? Who benefits more or loses out more? I think whites in power make these calculations subconsciously everyday because, for better or worse, whites do not look at black people . . . as well . … people but as [animals](http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/barbara2.asp). > > LOL, sorry, I don’t post every day. > > The idea is inspired, in minor part, by the _Bell Curve_ of which I am sure you’re very familiar with. In the penultimate chapter of the book, the authors subscribe to the view that blacks are violent, not smart, and in order to preserve the safety of the smarter, overlord white class, welfare should expanded in order to keep them pacified. I don’t agree with the reasoning but I do agree with the ultimate outcome. > > The reparation program allows blacks to move away from the United States on the taxpayer’s dime. It’s because it was on the taxpayer’s dime that we were brought here, enslaved, and mistreated for 400 years. The U.S government has ample assets for a reparation program. The reparation program will free you from having to complain about lower SAT scores for blacks because, guess what? - there would no blacks in the U.S to complain about. You won’t have to worry about black crime, either, since we’ll be gone. You won’t have to worry about Affirmative Action or any those programs you are eager to rail against. > > Never fear, after we leave, I am sure white people will be depressed for a bit then start it all over again by on the picking on the Asians, the Jews, the Italians, and whomever is brown-eyed. I believe white people have a lot to learn about loving themselves before they’ll be able to look at black people like they would their own brother or sister. > > - Honesty There’s so much sad and wrong here. I feel bad and sad that you feel this way, and I hope you find happiness and contentment in your life. Oddly enough, I’d qualify for reparations, based on the requirements in your OP, but I think your proposal would be bad for everyone, and would cause a lot more harm (for both black and non-black people) then it would repair. Sad ☹ ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/204 "2014-03-13T20:46:20Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Never fear, after we leave, I am sure white people will be depressed for a bit then start it all over again by on the picking on the Asians, the Jews, the Italians, and whomever is brown-eyed. I believe white people have a lot to learn about loving themselves before they’ll be able to look at black people like they would their own brother or sister. > > - Honesty And you see nothing racist in this statement? Or do you? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/205 "2014-03-13T22:15:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s so much sad and wrong here. I feel bad and sad that you feel this way, and I hope you find happiness and contentment in your life. > > \ > > Sad ☹ I am very happy and content. I just see things under a different lens than all of the posters here. Where you see disparate, unrelated events like the War on Drugs, cuts to programs that help impoverished communities, closing of polling stations, or the recent, coordinated push to deunionize the Midwest, or Arizona’s decision to use [welfare money](http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20131004arizona-welfare-checks-shutdown.html) to keep the [Grand Canyon](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/1012/Government-shutdown-defied-Grand-Canyon-reopens-for-a-week) open, I see a shining thread connecting the all of them. The thread is race. IMO, it’s about simultaneously diminishing upward mobility of blacks while at the same time coming up with cheap parlor tricks to curtail their suffrage. It’s a thinly veiled attempt to keep the status quo and to punish the party who supported them. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/206 "2014-03-13T23:36:46Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am very happy and content. I just see things under a different lens than all of the posters here. Where you see disparate, unrelated events like the War on Drugs, cuts to programs that help impoverished communities, closing of polling stations, or the recent, coordinated push to deunionize the Midwest, or Arizona’s decision to use [welfare money](http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20131004arizona-welfare-checks-shutdown.html) to keep the [Grand Canyon](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/1012/Government-shutdown-defied-Grand-Canyon-reopens-for-a-week) open, I see a shining thread connecting the all of them. The thread is race. IMO, it’s about simultaneously diminishing upward mobility of blacks while at the same time coming up with cheap parlor tricks to curtail their suffrage. It’s a thinly veiled attempt to keep the status quo and to punish the party who supported them. > > - Honesty It’s weird – this seems like a pretty reasonable post, and I don’t see how it’s connected at all to the wackadoodle proposal in the OP. It’s like someone coming to me and saying “There’s a problem here with income inequality, and unequal opportunity, and the solution is for poor people to go to Argentina”. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/207 "2014-03-14T01:03:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s weird – this seems like a pretty reasonable post, and I don’t see how it’s connected at all to the wackadoodle proposal in the OP. > > It’s like someone coming to me and saying “There’s a problem here with income inequality, and unequal opportunity, and the solution is for poor people to go to Argentina”. I am saying that income inequality, unequal opportunity, and the vilification of the poor are part and parcel of the American experience now. I just don’t think you’ll have a Legislative branch that funds the sciences and the arts, social services, and infrastructure in my lifetime. It’s all considered “pork” but giving free money to white people in another country is a sign of American exceptionalism. I’ll never understand that. You have a self-flagellating electorate that would argue for a tax cut rather than a tax increase because they don’t want to the government to give a fictional Tamika Johnson another check. Both white and black people need to ask ourselves: have we done all we can to improve the relations with one another? I think we have. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/208 "2014-03-14T01:14:58Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am saying that income inequality, unequal opportunity, and the vilification of the poor are part and parcel of the American experience now. I just don’t think you’ll have a Legislative branch that funds the sciences and the arts, social services, and infrastructure in my lifetime. It’s all considered “pork” but giving free money to white people in another country is a sign of American exceptionalism. I’ll never understand that. You have a self-flagellating electorate that would argue for a tax cut rather than a tax increase because they don’t want to the government to give a fictional Tamika Johnson another check. Both white and black people need to ask ourselves: have we done all we can to improve the relations with one another? I think we have. > > - Honesty I’m a bit more optimistic, and I think we’ve made a bit of progress. Not nearly enough, but I think we’re heading in the right direction. I think your proposal would provide worse outcomes, both for black people and non-black people. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/209 "2014-03-14T02:02:15Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Never fear, after we leave, I am sure white people will be depressed for a bit then start it all over again by on the picking on the Asians, the Jews, the Italians, and whomever is brown-eyed. I believe white people have a lot to learn about loving themselves before they’ll be able to look at black people like they would their own brother or sister. > > - Honesty I don’t think most of us white people give a rats ass what color anyone is, and I think the idea that every failure to thrive is somehow a result of racism is equally silly. This idea that whites just need to pick on someone is asinine. But here’s the thing I’d like you to answer: Where are blacks doing better? Where’s that golden destination off to which US blacks would scamper once we whites put them on permanent welfare so they can retire to the ShangriLa of their dreams and just relax? Where have they done better historically, as you look across the globe? Where would you go? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/210 "2014-03-14T05:38:55Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Where have they done better historically, as you look across the globe? [akbar]It’s A Trap![/akbar] ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/211 "2014-03-14T11:23:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [akbar]It’s A Trap![/akbar] Well yeah, if Honesty is trying to make a cogent argument and doesn’t want to be trapped into having it collapse under its own inadequacy. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/212 "2014-03-14T11:37:01Z")
So here’s the summary for **Honesty’s** reparation idea: \*\*"You, the white electorate, have ancestors who abused our black ancestors for 400 years. We, the blacks whose ancestors suffered, propose that you and your descendants pay for us to be on vacation for the next 400 years. We will prove our eligibility for this vacation plan by giving you DNA samples to show that we have enough DNA to put us in the eligible group.\*\*" Stuff comes out my nose, I’m laughing so hard. But on a more somber note, I suggest that this sort of drivel is counterproductive to the cause of the underprivileged of any color. Does it not expose an underlying attitude which is precisely one of the stereotypes blacks want to get away from: Where is my free money for being black? If you are that separatist, wouldn’t you want instead some sort of better effort to direct money to initiatives like historically black colleges where blacks can develop in peace without competing with other groups? Or maybe separate off land with special rules so they can build casinos and at least have a self-governed revenue source? I mean, this particular plan is pretty much just vacation money for 400 years. And just proposing it perpetuates a fairly negative stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/213 "2014-03-14T12:14:06Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I am saying that income inequality, unequal opportunity, and the vilification of the poor are part and parcel of the American experience now. I just don’t think you’ll have a Legislative branch that funds the sciences and the arts, social services, and infrastructure in my lifetime. It _does_ fund all those things. I’m sure it’s not to the degree you would like, but all those things get federal funding. > [@Honesty](#): > > It’s all considered “pork” but giving free money to white people in another country is a sign of American exceptionalism. [U.S. Foreign Aid to Africa: What We Give and Why](http://borgenproject.org/us-foreign-aid-to-africa-what-we-give-and-why/) > [@](#): > > In 2012, the United States provided nearly $12 billion in official development assistance (“ODA”) to African nations. The ODA is allocated to education, health, infrastructure and economic development programs in recipient countries. Currently, the United States allocates foreign aid to 47 African nations and USAID operates 27 missions on the continent. > > US Foreign aid to Africa began in the 1960s as many African nations gained independence and the United States sought strategic alliances to counter the influence of the Soviet Union. With the exception of disaster and famine relief, most foreign aid to Africa began to decrease with the collapse of the Soviet Union. > > In the 2000s, President Bush more than tripled aid to Africa by establishing programs such as the Child Survival and Health Programs Fund as well as the Global HIV/AIDS Initiative. [US boosts power aid to Africa in 5.4 billion euro deal](http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/30/us-boosts-power-aid-to-africa-in-5-4-billion-euro-deal-/) > [@](#): > > US President Barack Obama says his government will provide nearly 5.4 billion euros over the next five years to help combat power blackouts in sub-Saharan Africa. [Operation Restore Hope](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_restore_hope) It’s not just foreign white people that get American aid. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/214 "2014-03-18T04:14:30Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > **Eligibility** : DNA test to determine a critical mass of African-American polymorphisms. This means that some “white” people would be eligible. This is a feature, not a bug. Benefits begin at 25 years of age, however, benefits can start as early as 19 if the individual has no surviving parent. I had my DNA run! Here’s the result: I am 23 percent Ghana; 17 percent British Isles; 15 percent Cameroon/Congo; 13 percent Finnish/Ural/Volga; 11 percent southern European; 7 percent Togo; 6 percent Benin; 5 percent Senegal; 4 percent Spain/Portugal. Am I in or out? And considering that I’m a titch light on African-American, do I have to marry black to keep the kids eligible (assuming I’m in)? My net worth is a bit north of $25 million, but there is not a means test, is there? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/215 "2014-03-18T12:15:02Z")
I’d say that was a humblebrag, but I didn’t actually detect any attempt at humility. So it’s just a brag. Bully for you. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/216 "2014-03-18T13:35:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d say that was a humblebrag, but I didn’t actually detect any attempt at humility. So it’s just a brag. Bully for you. Hint: Vanessa Williams. On both the DNA and wealth counts. I’m actually poor, by the way. And I’m not sure I qualify for Honesty’s welfare program, although if it passes I’ll be looking for a critically massive black bride tomorrow. Possibly even Vanessa Williams. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/217 "2014-03-18T13:57:38Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Hint: Vanessa Williams. On both the DNA and wealth counts. OK… you stated it in a pretty unambiguous way that this was you, unless I missed something. > [@](#): > > I’m actually poor, by the way. And I’m not sure I qualify for Honesty’s welfare program, although if it passes I’ll be looking for a critically massive black bride tomorrow. Possibly even Vanessa Williams. If this is what it would take for you to marry Vanessa Williams, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate what drives your romantic strategy and goals. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/218 "2014-03-18T15:06:12Z")
Also, have you seen Vanessa Williams lately? The paint is starting to run. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/219 "2014-03-18T15:11:36Z")
If this thread keeps up this way I’m closing is as an attractive nuisance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969/220 "2014-03-18T15:14:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > If this thread keeps up this way I’m closing is as an attractive nuisance. Is it really that attractive, though? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reparations-revisited/681969.md?page=12)